The Confession

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yankee-in-france Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:09 am
The Confession Coming Soon		YIF Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 6999 Location: France



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:31 pm
A REAL confession? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession Jessie Misskelley Following more than four hours of intensely coercive questioning regarding the murder and sexual mutilation of three eight year old boys, Jessie Misskelley, of West Memphis, Arkansas, gave a statement that, although incorrect in every major detail, resulted in the conviction of himself, Jason Baldwin, and Damien Echols (collectively known as The West Memphis Three). The three remain in prison (with Echols on death row since 1994). * (a good breakdown) http://www.jivepuppi.com/case_for_innocence_misskelley.html ETA: http://www.jivepuppi.com/jivepuppi_home.html (This has almost all the info one needs to get caught up on the case)		"Bratty Mama Leci" Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 12374 Location: Kentucky



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:45 pm
Wiki on Richard Ofshe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ofshe		"Bratty Mama Leci" Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 12374 Location: Kentucky



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:05 pm
How to Get a False Confession in Ten Easy Steps This article by the author of "Effective Interviewing and Interrogation Techniques" is a nice short primer on the kinds of interrogations techniques that are seen time and time again in false confession cases. It's another way of packaging the Reid technique. Notice that there is not even the hint of the possibility of false confessions and the complete confidence of the interrogator in his ability to read the "buy signs" of his suspect—the body language and other physical reactions that suggest the suspect's guilt and that he is ready to confess. Security Management Tuesday, October 1, 2002 ISSN: 0145-9406; Volume 46; Issue 10 Confessions of an interrogator: Ten principles that guide a successful interrogation-by making it easier for a suspect to confess. (Investigations). Nathan J. Gordon The district manager of the fast-food restaurant noticed that for several days in a row, money was missing from the restaurant's daily bank deposits. He called in the security manager to interview the employees who had access to the deposits and to look at other evidence. It didn't take long for security to identify the primary suspect, a young man whom we'll call Michael. Given that all the evidence pointed strongly to Michael, he was called in and interrogated. The objective was to get Michael to confess. The company's security director was able to obtain the confession. Michael was terminated, resolving the issue and saving the company the expense of further pursuing the case in court. How can a security manager improve the chance of getting a confession when an investigation points strongly to one suspect within the company? The following 10 tactics are generally used by experienced interrogators to obtain a confession: Begin with a firm statement that the suspect is guilty. Do not allow the suspect to deny his involvement. Offer a sympathetic series of possibilities of how and why the crime took place. Keep the suspect on the defensive by undermining his self-confidence. Give some persuasive arguments for telling the truth. Alleviate the fear of confessing. Use compliments to build rapport. Watch for "buy" signs that show the suspect is ready to confess. Move in and get the confession. Using the example of the fast-food restaurant (which is based on the author's experience), the following interrogation scenario illustrates how these tactics can be applied. Getting started. The security manager, whom we'll call Williams, invites the suspect, Michael, into his office. They are face to face with no physical barrier between them. Williams first tells Michael that his participation in the inquiry is voluntary and that he is free to leave at any time. This step is taken to avoid charges of unlawful detention later. Williams then asks Michael to sign a consent form stating that he understands he is voluntarily being questioned and is free to leave. At the end of the interrogation, Michael will be asked to sign another consent form confirming that he was treated fairly, that he was not coerced, and that he stayed of his own free will. Williams also explains that this is not a police investigation, but rather one conducted by a private security officer hired by the company. (Consequently, there is no need for the suspect to be notified of his Miranda rights. If the security officer were also a police officer, even off-duty, or if the security officer were acting on behalf of law enforcement, the Miranda warning might be necessary.) While the company retains the option of bringing the matter to law enforcement, Williams does not mention this, as he wants the suspect's desire to confess to outweigh his fear of punishment. Statement of guilt. The interrogator begins the interrogation by making clear his conviction that, based on all available evidence, the suspect is guilty; if he fails to communicate this belief there is no reason for the suspect to confess. At this time, the interrogator may choose to reveal only some of the evidence, saving other details for later to undermine the suspect's confidence, or withholding certain information that only the perpetrator would know, as a way to verify the veracity of a confession (and as further evidence that the confession was not coerced). After this statement, the interrogator should briefly pause, then rephrase and repeat the statement with a "hook" (a leading question that allows the suspect to confess without using words). Some suspects will nod their heads at this point, effectively ending the interrogation. Other suspects, however, will begin to deny their involvement in the crime. In this case, Williams begins with a firm statement expressing his belief that Michael committed the crime, and adds a hook, hoping that the suspect will confess immediately: "Michael, our investigation is now completed, and based on the evidence, there is no question in my mind that you were involved." Williams pauses, then continues: "You took those missing deposits, didn't you?" Michael shifts uncomfortably in his chair but shakes his head in disagreement. He has been given the chance to confess but has declined. No denials. The more that Michael denies his misdeed, the more difficult obtaining a confession becomes, because each denial reinforces and deepens his lies. Once he has denied his involvement, he must admit not only his wrongdoing but also that he lied every time he denied it. Thus, Williams will use the tactic of refusing to listen to Michael's denials throughout the interrogation. When Michael shakes his head and begins to deny his involvement in stealing the deposits, Williams stops him by holding his hands up like a traffic cop. He then interrupts Michael, saying, "You took those deposits, Michael." Michael again shakes his head, and Williams insists. "Yes, you did." Possibilities. Michael lowers his head submissively. Now Williams moves closer and offers Michael a series of possibilities of how and why this crime may have happened. Williams tries to make it easier for Michael to admit his involvement by presenting sympathetic scenarios. He keeps a close watch for the suspect to show an interest in a particular scenario, The acceptable scenario for Michael may be one that allows him to minimize in his own mind the blame for committing the crime. For example, Williams says, "I've seen cases like this before. What it looks like to me is that you're not a thief. You're not the type of person who said to himself, 'I don't like the company, so I'm going to rip them off!' That's not what happened here. I think you got into a financial bind and started borrowing money from the deposit. Then, you needed to borrow money from the next day's deposit to cover for what you took, and it continued to escalate. You probably planned to pay everything back, but the whole thing just snowballed on you." Here the interrogator has offered a measure of sympathy for the suspect and has offered a respectable way for him to begin a confession. But in this case, Michael again begins to shake his head in disagreement. Williams again refuses to accept a denial: "Something definitely happened here, Michael, and you were definitely involved. It's just a question of why," he says. Later Williams will offer other possible scenarios that shift the blame to the fast-food restaurant. Undermining confidence. A person who has committed a crime invariably fears that incriminating evidence may have been left behind or may eventually turn up. The interrogator can play on that fear--that guilty conscience. In this case, Williams says, "If you're not going to talk to me, Michael, and tell me what happened, there's no way I can help you. And what's going to happen when they check with your landlord and find out that you were three months late in your rent and that you suddenly paid the back rent in cash? What's going to happen if someone saw you putting some money in your pocket? Where are you going to be then?" Williams knows that although these statements are bluffs, they can't be called; Michael does not know the extent of the evidence that exists or how much Williams knows. If Williams hits on the right scenario, or even gets close, Michael's confidence will be completely undermined, opening the door for a confession. Michael doesn't say anything yet, but Williams notes that he squirms uncomfortably in his chair. Fear versus desire. Most people who commit a crime experience guilt. There are only two ways to relieve it: confession or punishment. However, these conflict with each other. Almost every suspect will have a desire to confess, but fear of punishment inhibits it. Williams tries to enhance Michael's desire to confess, while reducing his fear of punishment. He does this by reminding Michael that if he confesses to the crime, he will likely be treated differently than if he defiantly continues to deny it despite the evidence against him. "There are different ways to handle situations like this," he tells Michael. "Imagine that you have two employees who each steal $20,000 from a company, and both go before the judge," says Williams. "One tells the judge that he took the money for medical bills but he knows it's wrong and he's sorry. The other looks the judge in the eyes and insists he didn't do anything. Both are found guilty. But the first guy gets a slap on the wrist, and if he stays out of trouble for a year, he has his record expunged. The other guy goes to jail. Why? They both committed the same crime, but we don't judge a person by their mistake. We all make mistakes. We judge a person by how they handle adversity when it's upon them. Do they own up to their mistakes?" Michael is listening closely and begins to nod his head, perhaps without even realizing it. Williams notices this as a "buy" sign (discussed later). The suspect is beginning to understand the benefit of confessing. Overcoming barriers. With the suspect closer to giving a confession, the interrogator must overcome the harriers of fear that prevent the guilty person from telling the truth. For example, here, Williams surmises that Michael knows he will lose his job if he confesses, but he is reluctant to bring this up. Williams understands this fear and brings the subject up himself so that the suspect has no need to. He says, "Michael, I bet you're worried about losing your job. But it's your job that put you here in the first place, isn't it? If they had only paid you a decent wage to begin with, you wouldn't have needed that money at all. This is not the end of the world. You've had other jobs before, and you'll have more jobs after this. What you need to do now is tell the truth and get on with your life. We can resolve this here and now, then I can go back to the company and tell them that you cooperated." Not only has the interrogator helped alleviate any misgivings about what confessing means to Michael's future, he's also subtly shifted the blame from Michael to the restaurant. Compliments. The interrogator must get the suspect to admit to his "dark" side--his misdeeds. That's not easy for anyone to do. To help overcome that barrier, the interrogator should compliment the suspect, taking note of some good attributes he or she possesses. Here, Williams lowers his voice and says, "Michael, the only way to put this behind you is to tell the truth. You seem to be an intelligent guy. I think you're intelligent: enough to realize that this is your opportunity to get this situation resolved, right?" Again, the hook offers the suspect a chance to simply nod and end the interview. Though Michael again refuses to nod and end the interrogation, Williams notices that the young man will not meet his gaze--another "buy" sign. Offering a well-timed compliment has another function. By this point, Williams knows he has established a rapport with the suspect. But Michael may now be concerned that if he confesses, Williams will no longer like or respect him, a common fear of those under interrogation. To overcome this, Williams again takes the initiative. "Michael, to be honest with you, I don't really believe you're a thief," says Williams. "I know that something happened here, but I think you were just in a jam and did something out of the ordinary. Isn't that right? Are you a thief, Michael? Or am I right, this is something that just happened this one time?" Not only has Williams offered a solution to Michael's worries, he's also portrayed himself as a sympathetic listener, even a friend. Alternative questions. Some suspects may confess at this stage. When they do not, the interrogator will next move on to a set of questions that gives the suspect the illusion of control and helps lead to an admission of guilt. In this case, although Michael is dose to confessing, he's not nodding his head yet. Williams says, "Let's make this simple, Michael Was this whole thing planned in advance, or did the situation just arise and you saw a chance to solve your money problems? Which one is it?" Michael tries again to deny the crime, hut the interrogator does not allow the denial, and speaks over Michael's words. "You did take those deposits, Michael. There's no question about it. I just need to know if you were stealing them, or, if I'm right, you were just borrowing them." Michael looks down and does not answer. Williams again uses a soothing voice and repeats his sympathetic explanation of what happened with questions designed to lead the suspect to a confession. "I think what happened is that you got in some trouble financially You borrowed the money and thought you could pay it back right away. When you couldn't, you took the next day's deposits to cover the money you took. The next day you still couldn't pay it back, so you did it again. Isn't that what happened?" Although Michael again shakes his head to deny the crime, Williams holds up his hands, and follows with a compliment and another leading question. "Yes it is. That's exactly what I think happened. You know I'm right. And you know what that tells me? It tells me that you're not a thief, that you're basically a good person who got into some trouble. But if you don't tell me the truth, I can't help you. Do you want me to help you?" Slowly, Michael nods his head to agree. "Buy" signs. This nod of the head is a strong "buy" sign. It means that Michael is getting ready to tell the truth. Some buy signs are nonverbal, such as an affirmative nod or a head hung in submission. Other times a suspect will ask, "So what would happen to a person who did something like this?" Michael is not confessing yet, so Williams moves even closer and offers another alternative question. "Did you steal the money or just borrow it?" Michael doesn't answer. Williams again offers an argument for telling the truth. "If you're the kind of man I think you are, this has got to be eating you up like a cancer. It probably feels like a rock on your chest. Now is the time you can get that rock off your chest, Michael. Because don't think you were really going to steal that money." Michael refuses eye contact and his crossed arms now open up: yet another buy sign. Williams tries to further undermine Michael's confidence. "What's going to happen if you don't tell your side of it? What's going to happen if they just go by the facts of the case and the other statements we've taken? Where is that going to leave you?" Still refusing to make eye contact, Michael mumbles, "I didn't take it." His voice is so quiet and without confidence that Williams knows that Michael is ready to talk. Press for confession. Williams moves in close. He uses a soft, accepting tone to ask alternative and leading questions. He reaches out and touches Michael's arm gently. "Tell the truth, Michael. Put this behind you. Show me that I'm right, that you're a good person who just got caught in a financial bind and did something you wouldn't ordinarily do. I think you intended to pay that money back. Is that what happened? Tell the truth. That's what happened, isn't it?" Michael finally nods and agrees. Williams does not revel in his victory; rather, he seals the deal by putting his hand on Michael's arm, and then shakes the boy's hand. "Michael, I'm really proud of you. It takes real courage to tell the truth. I respect you a lot more for telling the truth. Start from the beginning. When did it first start?" Michael is again silent for a moment, but Williams' gestures of respect and understanding help him to begin talking freely "My apartment got robbed," he says quietly. "They stole my bill money. As this case illustrates, the 10 principles are used again and again throughout an interrogation until the suspect confesses. By not allowing a suspect to deny guilt and by combining sympathetic scenarios with carefully crafted questions that make confession easier, interrogators can help move a guilty parry to a confession of the crime. While the interrogator needs to be persistent and intense, confessions come when the interrogator sincerely creates a helping, not adversarial, mood. Most criminals feel guilt and live in constant fear of discovery. The interrogator helps them conclude that a confession will let them move past the act and get on with their life. Nathan J. Gordon is director of the Academy for Scientific Investigative Training, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He is a member of ASIS International and the author of Effective Interviewing and Interrogation Techniques. http://www.truthinjustice.org/get-confession.htm		"Bratty Mama Leci" Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 12374 Location: Kentucky



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:06 pm
Some FAQ on the "Confession": Q: How did Jessie Misskelley know about some of the things he stated in his confession? A: News travels quickly in small towns, especially about something sensational like a triple murder. There were many civilians out there searching when the bodies were found (trampling whatever evidence was there), and many people saw the condition that the bodies were in. The police released entirely too much information on the crime that should have been kept secret in order to avoid false confessions like Jessie's. By the time the police questioned Jessie, the things he told them were common knowledge, but Jessie got so many of the known facts wrong during these statements, that it's difficult to overlook the inconsistencies. Q: Exactly how many confessions did Jessie give? And what were the circumstances? A: [Note: A more detailed explanation of this topic can be found here] On the morning of June 3, 1993, Det. Mike Allen brought Jessie to the police station for questioning. According to Allen's testimony, Jessie was thought to be acquainted with Damien and Jason Baldwin. In West Memphis, that was enough to get one hauled in for a talk. (Jessie was questioned by the police despite the fact that his father never signed a form consenting to a waiver of Jessie's constitutional rights. In theory, he could only be questioned if one of his parents consented in writing to waive his Miranda rights, as Jessie was only seventeen years old. Arkansas courts have found away around that rights violation, however, as explained in this article.) During the initial phase of questioning, Jessie told the police that he'd heard Damien and Robert Burch committed the murders (this was a rumor going around, according to other statements in the evidence files). He denied any first hand knowledge of the crime. Dissatisfied with Jessie's answers, the police asked him to take a polygraph test. This was a tactic the WMPD employed relentlessly in this case, polygraphing over 40 different people. Det. Allen took Jessie to get the necessary permission from his father, as Jessie was a minor. Still, no discussion regarding waiving Jessie's Miranda rights. Jessie was given a polygraph, and Det. Durham announced that he was "lying his ass off." (Expert Warren Holmes determined that Jessie had actually lied on only one question that related to drug use.) Jessie, with a third-grade reading level and an I.Q. of 72, was confused by the machine that Durham told him could read people's minds. More interrogation followed, interspersed with a variety of "techniques" that the WMPD officers later testified were intended to "evoke a response." The Arkansas Supreme Court later called one of their tactics "perilously close to psychological overbearing." Eventually, Jessie "confessed." Nothing, not one part of the day, had been taped up to this point. Suddenly, the tape recorder appeared and Jessie gave a disjointed and error-filled statement. After Fogleman and Municipal Court Judge Rainey (who would have to sign the arrest and search warrants) heard Jessie's account - where the children were killed at a time they were known to be in school, tied with rope instead of shoelaces, etc. - Gitchell was told to go back and interrogate Jessie further. He did so, leading to the "clarification" statement. Jessie continued to claim the children were tied with rope, a discrepancy that everyone chose to overlook. Jessie recanted, but it was already too late. A probable cause hearing was held at 9:06 p.m. and Jessie's "confession" was used to obtain search warrants for Damien, Jason and Domini's residences. Arrest warrants were issued for Damien and Jason, and all three have been incarcerated since that evening. On the day Jessie was convicted and sentenced to life in prison, he was transported to the Arkansas Department of Corrections facility in Pine Bluff by two Clay County Sheriff's Deputies. They claimed that after assuring Jessie that nothing he said could be used against him, they elicited yet another statement. Stidham was furious, not only because they violated Jessie's Sixth Amendment right to counsel and his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, but also because he knew that under pressure, Jessie could be convinced to say almost anything. The prosecution happened to be desperate for Jessie to testify against Jason and Damien. In the film PARADISE LOST, Davis can be seen talking to the victims' families regarding the chance of a conviction without Jessie: "Fifty-fifty might be good." After a long and complex chain of events, laid out in this motion alleging prosecutorial misconduct, Jessie made another statement. In the end, despite the prosecutors' threats and promises, Jessie refused to testify. What is perhaps most interesting about all of Jessie's statements is that each and every one of them include incorrect facts - even after Jessie sat through his entire trial listening to the testimony. http://www.wm3.org/live/faq/faq_category.php?id=5		"Bratty Mama Leci" Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 12374 Location: Kentucky



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:28 pm
SEARCH WARRANT INFO/MISSKELLEY'S CONFESSION On the morning of June 4th, 1993, Gail Grinnell, the mother of Jason Baldwin, spoke to Detective Ridge, demanding an explanation as to why her son was arrested. She stated Jason was at home at the time of the murders. Ridge said the police couldn't begin to investigate his alibi until Jason spoke to them (Jason had refused to make a statement without a lawyer). Grinnell was shown the confession of Jessie Misskelley. Det. Ridge: Well it's like this. We've got a story that is very very believable. It is so close to perfect that we have to believe it. So until we can break that story apart and we can't even start to breaking it apart until Jason tells us something. Gail Grinnell: There's so many different stories in that, in that story he [Misskelley] gave up I doubt anyone can believe it. Det. Ridge: That's what I'm telling you. And it's believable. Gail Grinnell: It's not believable to me because he's got too many different discrepancies in it. Det. Ridge: You don't have the point of view we've got. We know what we looked at at the crime scene. It's very believable. The entire conversation is transcribed here. Exhibit B of the Search Warrant. In order to obtain a search warrant, the police composed and attached a statement to Misskelley's confession detailing Misskelley's inside information regarding the crime. This was "Exhibit B." Exhibit B is illustrative of the biased tone of the investigation and the outright dishonesty of the West Memphis Police Department. Exhibit B has three parts. The first describes the crime. The second describes the justification for the warrant. The third affirms that this information had been corroborated by the investigation. Exhibit B is transcribed and displayed at the bottom of this page. The justification for the warrant is made explicit. "Misskelley gave the police information that only a person who had been involved in the homicides would have known." Thirteen examples are then provided (the numbering is mine). Then, at the end, the conclusion is made: "This information given has been corroborated through the investigation conducted at the scene of the homicides by the West Memphis Police Department Criminal Investigation Division and the examination of the victims and evidence by the Arkansas State Crime Lab." These assertions establish three aspects by which the claims of the police can be assessed. First, that Misskelley gave the police the information. Second, Misskelley's statements can be corroborated by the evidence. And third, whether the details included in the warrant matched the facts of the case. In some cases, the police told Misskelley the details. In others, the details provided in the warrant were sheer fabrications by the police; Misskelley made no such statement. And finally, in some instances there were details that were provided by Misskelley but for which there were no corroboration or else they simply contradicted the facts of the case. Sometimes a given statement had all of these problems. The first third of Exhibit B is an odd rehashing of the crime. Some facts are correct and other facts are incorrect. Among the incorrect assertions, the document states Michael Moore was castrated and all the clothing was recovered near the victims. The meat of the justification of the warrant begins with the subsequent section: "On 06-03-93, Jessie Misskelley Jr. was asked to come to the West Memphis Police Department where he was advised of his rights according to the Miranda rule and gave a voluntary statement concerning his involvement in the above noted homicides. A copy of a transcribed statement will be attached hereto. Misskelley gave the police information that only a person who had been involved in the homicides would have known." #1. "Misskelley stated that he witnessed the cutting of the penis of Chris Byers by Jason Baldwin." Analysis. Facts of the case. Chris Byers did have injuries to his penis and groin area, specifically, the removal of his testicles and the skinning of his penis. Problems with this statement. Lots of them. First of all, Misskelley never connects this incident to Jason Baldwin. Second of all Misskelley never states who had his penis cut. He points at a picture, the police identify the picture, and Misskelley agrees. (Misskelley had already demonstrated that he could not correctly identify the victims from pictures.) Third, Misskelley only states that a child was cut "on the bottom." The police offer that Misskelley meant groin and then penis. Misskelley relates no specific knowledge in these exchanges until the police say it first. And, finally, Misskelley ends by saying he doesn't know if he saw them cut the penis. The excerpts below from Misskelley's confession are from a personal transcription after having found many errors with the police transcription. From Misskelley's confession: DETECTIVE RIDGE: Cutting in the face. Alright, another boy was cut I understand, where was he cut at? A63 MISSKELLEY: At the bottom DETECTIVE RIDGE: On his bottom? Was he face down when he was cutting on him, or A64 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Now you're talking about bottom, do you mean right here? A65 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: In his groin area? A66 MISSKELLEY: (Note: Misskelley's mm-hmm overlaps with police question) DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Okay DETECTIVE RIDGE: Do you know what his penis is? A67 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm, that's where he was cut at. DETECTIVE RIDGE: That's where he was cut. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Which boy was that? A68 MISSKELLEY: That right there. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: You're talking about the Byers boy again? A69 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Okay DETECTIVE RIDGE: Are you sure that he was the one that was cut? A70 MISSKELLEY: That's the one that I seen them cutting on. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, you know what penis is? A71 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, is that where he was cutting? A72 MISSKELLEY: That's where I seen them going down at, and he was on his back. I seen them going down right there real close to his penis and stuff and I saw some blood and that's when I took off. (Note: the numbering of Misskelley's answers is mine and serves to reference both particular statements and to maintain an orientation as to the order in which statements were made.) Removing the police statements which filled in the information for Jessie, we have: A63 MISSKELLEY: At the bottom A64 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. A65 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. A66 MISSKELLEY: (Note: Misskelley's mm-hmm overlaps with police question) A67 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm, that's where he was cut at. A68 MISSKELLEY: That right there. A69 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. A70 MISSKELLEY: That's the one that I seen them cutting on. A71 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. A72 MISSKELLEY: That's where I seen them going down at, and he was on his back. I seen them going down right there real close to his penis and stuff and I saw some blood and that's when I took off. In the only other mentioning of these injuries, Ridge says: A134 DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay, and the one that they were cutting the penis off of, did any of them, or cutting the penis or whatever was being done, did they have sex with him at all? In this instance, Ridge seems to catch himself as he is putting words into Misskelley's mouth. However, at the probable cause hearing, Ridge doesn't hesitate to state Jessie was even more specific. Ridge: Okay, he give (sic) information, that the testicles, penis had been removed by a knife by Jason Baldwin of Christopher Byers. The medical examiner give us a report stating that, that the testicles had been removed my a knife. Interestingly, Misskelley never of his own accord brings up the name of Chris (or Byers) in regards to any act of violence. Each time he is prompted by the police who tell him whose picture he pointed at. Misskelley never brings up Chris (or Byers) at all except in the statements regarding rape. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Which, which boys were raped? B44 MISSKELLEY: Uh, Byers and the Branch. and, later: DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Did anyone have oral sex with the boys? B50 MISSKELLEY: Yes, Damien and Jason. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: How many of them did they do that to? B51 MISSKELLEY: Just two, Branch and Byers. In between the above two, Misskelley mentions "Myers" in regards to rape: DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Do you know which one raped which boy, or how did that happen? B48 MISSKELLEY: Damien raped the Myers by hisself and and Jason and Damien raped uh the Branch. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Alright, give that to me again now. B49 MISSKELLEY: Damien raped uh the Myers by hisself and Jason and Damien raped uh the Branch. #2. ". . .the forcible rape of Chris by Damien Echols. . ." Analysis. Facts of the case. None of the children had anal injuries, bruises or trauma, associated with forcible penetration. Upon microscopic analysis, none of the victims had broken capillaries around the anus. Ergo, none of them were forcibly sodomized (pretty much stated by the medical examiner at trial). Byers had an "injected anus" with "marked hyperemia." The other two did not have their rectal areas so described. Problems with this statement. Lots of them. First, it doesn't match the facts of the case. Second of all, Misskelley gave all sorts of contradictory statements related to this. He said, at various times that only Echols raped Chris (B48, above), that only Baldwin did (A135), and that neither of them did (A134). DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay, and the one that they were cutting the penis off of, did any of them, or cutting the penis or whatever was being done, did they have sex with him at all? A134 MISSKELLEY: No DETECTIVE RIDGE: Did any one of them? A135 MISSKELLEY: Jason did DETECTIVE RIDGE: Jason did? A136 MISSKELLEY: Jason was screwing him while Damien stuck his in his mouth and got a blow job. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay, how did he have sex with that one? A137 MISSKELLEY: Damien, he was holding him down like, and Jason had his legs up in the air and that little boy was kicking, saying, 'don't, no' like that. #3. ". . .the striking of the heads by Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin (sic). . ." Analysis. Facts of the case: all three children had injuries to their heads consistent with being struck in the head. Problems with this statement: lots of them (remarkable for such a short statement). Misskelley does say that Damien hit a child (A30). Misskelley does go on to say that that child was Michael Moore but then points to the picture of Chris Byers (A31). The police correct his identification (A32) and then tell him "Okay, so you saw Damien strike Chris Byers in the head? (after A34)" It is the police not Misskelley who corrects the identity and tells Misskelley that he saw the child struck in the head. Blows to the head are never mentioned again by Misskelley. Misskelley never says Jason hit a child in the head. A30 MISSKELLEY: When I was there, I saw Damien hit this one, hit this one boy real bad, and then uh, and then he started screwing them and stuff and then uh, DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, you got in front of you a picture, that was taken out of the newspaper I believe, it's got three boys and these are the three boys that were killed on that date in Robin Hood Woods, okay. Which one of those three boys is it you say Damien hit? The third picture (Jessie seems to be affirming this in the background), which will be A31 MISSKELLEY: Michael Moore DETECTIVE GITCHELL: This boy right here, A32 MISSKELLEY: Yeah, DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Alright, that's uh the Byers boy, #4. ". . .including the severe beatings of all three boys. . ." Analysis. Facts of the case: all three boys had multiple bruises consistent with being beaten. Problems with this statement: Misskelley gets this correct. He does say all three of the boys were severely beaten. A36 continues a discussion regarding Chris Byers and Damien Echols. A36 MISSKELLEY: He hit him with his fist and bruised him all up real bad. and: A56 MISSKELLEY: Right after I, they beat up all three of them, beat them up real bad and: A138 MISSKELLEY: They beat them up so bad so they can't hardly move. #5. ". . . the act of the victims being placed in the water by Jason Baldwin and Damien Echols. . ." Analysis. Facts of the case: all three victims were found underwater, sunk in the mud at the bottom of a creek. Problems with this statement: Again, this is not "insider knowledge" on the part of Misskelley. After telling the police twice that the children did not get into the water, the police tell Misskelley that they did. Only then does Misskelley agree with the premise and say they were pulled into the water. "Placed" is an odd choice of words, as it does not coincide with any of Misskelley's statements. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Besides just playing, the little boys, had they been in the water? Did they get into the water with you all? A175 MISSKELLEY: No, they didn't get into the water with us and: DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Did you ever see the boys in the water? B33 MISSKELLEY: Uh, yeah, down by the water. then: DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Alright, how did the boys get into the water? B34 MISSKELLEY: They pulled them there into the water. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Alright, when you say they who is it that pulled them into the water? B35 MISSKELLEY: Jason and uh, Damien. #6. "He stated that he did see one of the victims being drug into the water." Analysis. Facts of the case: There is no evidence of the manner in which the children were taken into the water. Problems with this statement: A bizarre statement on the part of the police. Misskelley makes no comment regarding one of the children being "drug" into the water. The only statements regarding the children and water are mentioned above. #7. "When the beatings of the three victims began that Michael Moore ran from the scene and that he, Jessie Misskelley, Jr., did chase Michael Moore, caught him and returned him to the other two suspects who began beating him. " Analysis. Facts of the case: no supporting evidence that this happened and some evidence to the contrary. Misskelley's comments, in their entirety, say that Moore headed off to the south. Moore's body was found to the north, separate from the other two. Problems with this statement: There is the above problem of the contradicting evidence. Misskelley also says he held Moore until "they" got there, not that Misskelley brought Moore back. Of course, this makes no sense, because this was supposed to have happened at the beginning of the melee and Jason and Damien would have had to have abandoned Chris and Stevie. The police must have picked up on this inconsistency so they correct Misskelley in the following question, telling Misskelley that he brought the children back together (in agreement with what is in the warrant). The police also elaborate that when Michael Moore was returned "the other two suspects. . . began beating him." There is nothing in Misskelley's statement as to that, although Misskelley does state elsewhere that all three were beaten. A37 MISSKELLEY: And started doing the same thing, then the other one took off, Michael uh Moore took off running, so I chased him and grabbed him and held him, til they got there and then I left. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay. Alright, when you get the boys back together, where you at from the creek? #8. "Misskelley stated that he did witness one one the victims to be beaten until unconsciousness." (sic) Analysis. Facts of the case: All three were severely beaten. No specific evidence that supports that they were beaten until unconscious, but neither does this assertion contradict the facts. Problems with the statement: Misskelley made no such statement especially regarding the odd particular that it is one of the children being beaten until unconscious. The police are the first to bring up the subject of consciousness, and then it is after the cutting. Again, the police provide the "inside knowledge." Nothing is mentioned as to how they became unconscious. A128 MISSKELLEY: I saw them cutting on them, and then they, they DETECTIVE GITCHELL: So, what else, what else left is there, after that? A129 MISSKELLEY: Then they laid the knife down beside them and I saw them tying them up and then that's when I left. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Were the boys conscience (sic) or were they A130 MISSKELLEY: They were unconscious then DETECTIVE RIDGE: Unconscious The only other discussion of a child losing consciousness is presented below in regards to the police suggesting Chris was choked to unconsciousness and not death. #9. ". . .and that one of the victims was choked to what he thought was death with a piece of wood." Analysis. Facts of the case: no physical or bruising evidence that any child was choked. This lack of evidence basically says that no child was choked. Problems with the statement: it contradicts the facts of the case. Furthermore, Misskelley told the police the child was choked to death with hands, then a stick. The police then correct him, telling him that he just thought the child was dead. This correction was necessary because the means of death did not match Jessie's statement. DETECTIVE RIDGE: How was he actually killed? A208 MISSKELLEY: He did, he choked him real bad like. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Choked him? Okay, what was he choking him with? A209 MISSKELLEY: His hands, like a, like a stick, he had a big old stick, and he's kind of holding it over his neck. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay, so he was choking him to the point where he actually went unconscious, so at that point, you felt like he was dead? A210 MISSKELLEY: Yeah #10. "Damien had grabbed one of the victims around the head with his hands on either side of the head forcing the boy to perform oral sex on him. " and #11. "The victims were being held by their ears while being forced to perform these acts. " Analysis. Facts of the case: All three children had bruises on their ears that can be argued with being consistent with a perpetrator using this as a means of forcing oral sex. They could also be caused by holding ears for other reasons. No semen was found in the oral cavities, and no bruising was found in the back of the mouth. Peretti indicated that the such bruising would be expected with forced oral sex. Although Jessie states forced oral sex happened to two of the children, all three children had bruising on the ears. Problems with this statement. As in items #1, 2, 6 and 7 the warrant is particular, where Misskelley is not particular or else contradictory. Misskelley clearly says both Echols and Baldwin received oral sex (B50). Furthermore, when Misskelley goes into how the children were held during the oral sex, Misskelley refers to both Damien and Jason (the warrant statement only mentions Damien). There are other problems with this statement centering around the 12 exchanges before Jessie finally is led to say that they held the children by their ears. This was argued in court that the police extensively lead Jessie to get to the ultimate specific conclusion, but suffice it to say, Jessie did not spontaneously display insider knowledge in this matter. He was laboriously taken there by the police, saying held by the head (four times), by the arms (once), before finally saying by the ears (italicized below). This is only after four times in which Gitchell asks if they were held "up here" (B66, B68, B74, B75, emphasis mine). What Gitchell was demonstrating when he said "up here" is not mentioned. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Did anyone have oral sex with the boys? B50 MISSKELLEY: Yes, Damien and Jason. later: DETECTIVE GITCHELL: How did, how did, they force these boys to have oral sex on them? How did they have a hold of them? B66 MISSKELLEY: One of them had holding them by the arms while the other one got behind them and stuff. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Did he ever hold him up here or B67 MISSKELLEY: Uh, the one that was holding him up there at the front grabbing him by his headlock. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Had him in a headlock? Did he have him any other way? B68 MISSKELLEY: He was holding him like this by his head like this and stuff (A note in the police transcription said: was indicating the victims being held by their ears) DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Could he have been holding him up here like that? B69 MISSKELLEY: I was too far away he was holding him up here by his head like this (A note in the police transcription said: showed the same as above) DETECTIVE GITCHELL: So, so B70 MISSKELLEY: And he was pulling him. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Ok, so who was one of them doing that or both of them was doing it? Was Jason? B71 MISSKELLEY: Jason was holding him while Damien did it and then they took turns. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: So, they both did it to all three of these boys? B72 MISSKELLEY: Just them two as far as I know. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Just the two of them? B73 MISSKELLEY: Yeah. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: But they, they both Jason and Damien did it to two of the boys and they took turns? B74 MISSKELLEY: Uh huh. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: And they would hold, tell me again about their hands on, I mean I know you're, you're holding it up here. B75 MISSKELLEY: It was up here by their heads and stuff and was just pulling and stuff. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Alright, so they are up here, had their hands B76 MISSKELLEY: By their ears and pulling them and stuff. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Alright, Ok, say, say that again for me now. B77 MISSKELLEY: Hold them by their head, by ears and pulling. #12. "He saw the bicycles that the victims had ridden to the scenes on to be parked on the south bank of the bayou by the victims as they approached the scene where the murders occurred. " (sic) Analysis. Facts of the case: the children were last seen on the bicycles about a quarter mile east from the above described place. The bicycles were found on the north half of the bayou, under water, about thirty feet from the south bank, suggesting that the bikes were first taken across the pipe. Problems with this statement. Jessie makes no such comment. Jessie's comments regarding the bicycles are: A88 MISSKELLEY: They skipped school DETECTIVE RIDGE: They skipped school? A89 MISSKELLEY: They's going to catch their bus and stuff, and they's on their bikes and so, (interrupted) The children didn't skip school, they didn't take their bikes to school, and they didn't take a bus to school. and: DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, they were on their bikes, where were the bikes at? A90 MISSKELLEY: They, they laid their bikes down when they come out to the, I mean, when they hollered for them to come, come out there DETECTIVE RIDGE: Where did they lay their bikes down at, that's what I'm asking? A91 MISSKELLEY: I don't know where they laid their bikes down at, cause I was, I was behind Damien and nem, way, way behind them. Here Jessie clearly says he doesn't know. Furthermore, this statement doesn't match the geography when taken with his other statements, particularly that Damien and Jason were in the creek when they saw the kids and hollered to them to come over. The south bank of the bayou was not visible from the creek, nor for that matter was the north bank where the banks were found. The police asked Jessie again: DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Did they call them by name? A182 MISSKELLEY: Un-uh, they just hollered at them, and they, they slowed up. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Where did the boys put their bikes? A183 MISSKELLEY: Close to right where there before you come in and they laid them down right there, and I don't know, after I left I don't know what they done with the bikes. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: You didn't do anything to the bikes at all? A184 MISSKELLEY: No. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: Are you sure? A185 MISSKELLEY: Positive. DETECTIVE GITCHELL: You didn't touch the bikes? A186 MISSKELLEY: I didn't touch them. "Close to right where there before you come in" is Jessie's definitive statement on where the bicycles were left and sufficient to put in the search warrant Jessie's inside knowledge regarding the bicycles that the bicycles were left on the south side of the bayou (for which there was no evidence, anyhow). #13. "Misskelly also described the area where the murders occurred very specifically as to the high bank on the west side of the ditch where the bodies were placed and the flat area on the east side of the ditch where the murders actually took place." Analysis. Facts of the case: the flat area on the east side of the ditch was alongside where Michael Moore's body was found and about 10 yards from where the other two bodies were found. Too long an argument to go into here as to whether this was the murder scene. According to the police's own case summary, the lack of blood at the site where the bodies were found indicates that it was not where the murders took place and the initial ACIC bulletins stated in this crime "their bodys (sic) had been dropped in a remote place." Problems with this statement: There is no evidence that Misskelley knew anything about the interior of the woods in which the bodies were found. The police supplied him with these details on tape with Misskelley either agreeing to what the police said or parroting back single words or choices, telling him he stood on a tall bank, etc. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, and you know where the little creek is that goes out to the expressway, and it doesn't have a lot of water in it, but it's got some water in it, and it's flowing through there, which side of that creek were you on, were you on the Memphis side of the creek or were you on the Blue Beacon side of that creek? A76 MISSKELLEY: Blue Beacon. DETECTIVE RIDGE: On the Blue Beacon A77 MISSKELLEY: Yes DETECTIVE RIDGE: So, there is like a tall bank, were you, where were you at on that bank? and: DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, we're going to correct that even further, that's the east side, Memphis side is the east side and you were standing at the top of the bank on the west side, were you looking down at what was going on? A82 MISSKELLEY: I was looking down, and after I seen all of that, I took off This is an incomplete list of the police's description of the inside of the woods. The only detail provided by Misskelley during the interview was that the path to the crime scene was "little." Additional claims made in the probable cause hearing. In the probable cause hearing, Ridge made one other claim as to the insider information. Fogleman: What was, did he also give you information in regards to some stab or gouge wounds to the face of one of the victims? Ridge: Yes sir Fogleman: Which victim was that? Ridge: Steve Branch Fogleman: Alright, and did Jessie Misskelley uh, tell you which victim had these types of wounds? Ridge: Yes sir, he did he told us that is was Steven Branch that received the cuts to the face. Misskelley had said one of the children was cut on the face. DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay, now when it's going on, when it's taking place, you under. . . you saw somebody with a knife. Who had a knife? A60 MISSKELLEY: Jason DETECTIVE RIDGE: Jason had a knife. What did he cut with the knife? What did you see him cut or who did you see him cut? A61 MISSKELLEY: I saw him cut one of the little boys DETECTIVE RIDGE: Alright, where did he cut him at? A62 MISSKELLEY: He was cutting him in the face. Misskelley never identified which victim had cuts in the face. He never associated any wounds with Steve Branch. Before the taped interrogation, the police showed Misskelley an autopsy photo of Michael Moore, who had several minor cuts on his face. Furthermore, Misskelley did not describe the degree of cutting that took place on the child mentioned above nor did he describe it as stabbing or gouging. However, when the police asked him if he did say the wounds were severe, he agreed (although there was no record he had previously said it). DETECTIVE RIDGE: Okay, one of them was cut on the face real bad, is that what you said? A141 MISSKELLEY: Mm-hmm. (In original police transcription the above reads: Okay, none [note: this is not clear - it may be 'one'] of them were cut on the face real bad, is that what you said? JESSIE: Yes) A final false claim was made in the probable hearing cause, although it did not relate to insider knowledge. Ridge claimed Jessie had said they had homosexual sex in cult orgies. Jessie never described homosexual sex in the orgies. Ridge: Alright, he has confused to (sic) and stated that he has participated in cult activities in which animals have been killed, uh, homosexual acts have been performed. . . In summary, of the 13 statements made regarding Jessie's inside knowledge of events that were also corroborated by evidence, only number 4 was correct. Jessie correctly stated that all three were beaten up badly. The other statements were provided by the police during the interrogation, were unsubstantiated, contradicted the evidence or were simply invented when composing the search warrant. A final note from Ridge's conversation with Gail Grinnell: Ridge: "We don't put words into people's mouths. And it's all on tape, exactly what he said." EXHIBIT "B" - transcribed The following is a summary regarding the investigation of the murders of Steve Edward Branch - age 8, Christopher Byers - age 8, Michael Moore - Age 8. Branch, Byers, and Moore, were last seen riding two bicycles towards a wooded area known as Robin Hood Hill. This wooded area is located at the dead end of McAuley Street and North of Ten Mile Bayou in West Memphis, Arkansas. The last time of sighting was about 6:00 p.m. 05-05-93. The victims were reported missing by their parents at approximately 8:10 pm 05-05-93 at which time a search was initiated. At about 1:30 p.m. 05-06-93, the body of Christopher Byers was located by Sgt. Mike Allen after he sighted a black tennis shoe located in a creek approximately 60 yards south of Interstate 55. Byers body was submerged in approximately 2-3 feet of water. Byers hands and feet were bound by shoe strings from tennis shoes and he had an obvious trauma wound to his left forehead and other locations on his body. Branch and Moore's bodies were located submerged in water approximately 5 feet from Byers. Both Branch and Moore were bound in the same manner as Byers. Branch had obvious injuries and gouge wounds to his left cheek. Moore had been obviously castrated and had susstained other injuries. All three victims' were nude when located. All clothing belonging to the victims including shirts, shoes, pants, and underwear were located in the creek in close proximity to the victims. On 06-03-93, Jessie Misskelley Jr. was asked to come to the West Memphis Police Department where he was advised of his rights according to the Miranda rule and gave a voluntary statement concerning his involvement in the above noted homicides. A copy of a transcribed statement will be attached hereto. Misskelley gave the police information that only a person who had been involved in the homicides would have known. Misskelley stated that he witnessed the cutting of the penis of Chris Byers by Jason Baldwin, the forcible rape of Chris by Damien Echols, the striking of the heads by Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin including the severe beatings of all three boys, and the act of the victims being placed in (SECOND PAGE) water by Jason Baldwin and Damien Echols. He stated that he did see one of the victims being drug into the water. Misskelley stated that when the beatings of the three victims began that Michael Moore ran from the scene and that he, Jessie Misskelley, Jr., did chase Michael Moore, caught him and returned him to the other two suspects who began beating him. Misskelley stated that he did witness one one the victims to be beaten until unconsciousness and that one of the victims was choked to what he thought was death with a piece of wood. He further stated that Damien had grabbed one of the victims around the head with his hands on either side of the head forcing the boy to perform oral sex on him. Misskelley stated that the victims were being held by their ears while being forced to perform these acts. Misskelley stated that he saw the bicycles that the victims had ridden to the scenes on to be parked on the south bank of the bayou by the victims as they approached the scene where the murders occurred. Misskelly also described the area where the murders occurred very specifically as to the high bank on the west side of the ditch where the bodies were placed and the flat area on the east side of the ditch where the murders actually took place. This information given has been corroborated through the investigation conducted at the scene of the homicides by the West Memphis Police Department Criminal Investigation Division and the examination of the victims and evidence by the Arkansas State Crime Lab. EXHIBIT "B"		"Bratty Mama Leci" Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 12374 Location: Kentucky



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:45 pm
JUNE 3, 1993 INTERVIEW OF JESSIE MISSKELLEY, JR. SECOND INTERVIEW CONDUCTED TO CLARIFY PREVIOUS STATEMENTS PRESENT DURING INTERVIEW: INSPECTOR GARY GITCHELL JESSIE MISSKELLEY, JR Gitchell: Jessie, uh, when when you got with the boys and with Jason Baldwin when you three were in the woods and then little boys come up, about what time was it? When the boys come up to the woods? Jessie: I would say it was about 5 or so 5 or 6. Gitchell: Know, did you have your watch on at the time? Jessie: Huh uh (no) Gitchell: You didn't have your watch on? Jessie: Huh uh (no) Gitchell: Uh, alright you told me earlier around 7 or 8, which time is it? Jessie: It was 7 or 8. Gitchell: Are you Jessie: It was starting to get dark. Gitchell: Ok, it Jessie: I remember it was starting to get dark. Gitchell: Ok, well that clears it up. I didn't know, that's what I was wondering, was it getting dark or what. Jessie: We got up there at 6:00 and the boys come up and it was starting to get dark. Gitchell: Ok, so you and Jason and Baldwin uh, Damien you all got there right at 6. Jessie: About 6 yeah Gitchell: Is that a normal time that you all meet at 6? Jessie: Yeah. Gitchell: Ok, when you do your cult stuff does 6 mean something, I mean is that a time you normally do meet? Jessie: Yeah. Gitchell: Ok, so you all met out there at 6 and then the boys come up about what time? Jessie: About 7. Gitchell: About 7:00, Ok. So you all were out there with the boys and all this stuff going on and until you noticed it starting getting dark. Is that correct? Jessie: Yeah. Gitchell: Ok, now are you sure about that? Jessie: Yes. Gitchell: Ok, uh, Ok, hold on just a minute. (Pause) Ok Jessie uh, I asked you about your clothing and you said that uh, what what were you wearing? Jessie: I was wearing uh, blue jeans, and a white shirt with some kind of basketball deal on it. Some tennis shoes Adidas. Gitchell: Alright, your shirt was it a, uh, what kind of shirt was it? Jessie: It was a white shirt with a basketball on around it. Gitchell: Is it a shirt like you got on now? Jessie: Uh huh (yes). Gitchell: What kind of shirt is it like you have on now? That is what, a t-shirt? Jessie: Uh huh (yes). Gitchell: Ok, so you had a white t-shirt with a basketball design on it. Gitchell: Ok, uh, what about shoes, what kind of shoes did you have on? Jessie: White and blue Adidas. Gitchell: White and blue? Jessie: uh huh (yes). Gitchell: And who has those shoes now? Jessie: Buddy Lucas. Gitchell: And how old is Buddy? Jessie: He is about 18 or 19. Gitchell: Why does he have your shoes? Jessie: We went we was coming home one day and it was raining and he didn't have nothing else to wear so he put on one of my shoes. Gitchell: Ok, and where does he live at? Jessie: In Lakeshore. Gitchell: Is there Jessie: By, uh the church. Gitchell: Is there a street or anything? Jessie: It is a street but it ain't got no names on it though. Gitchell: What street is the church on? Jessie: On uh, as soon as you get off of Cherry Street. Uh, Cherry Street right in front of it. Gitchell: Off of Cherry Street? Jessie: Uh hu (yes) Gitchell: Ok, are there any vehicles around close by that I could recognize that trailer? Jessie: It should be a green truck and a brown van and there is a basketball goal right there where the green truck is at by the basketball goal. Gitchell: Alright, who tied the boys up? Jessie: Uh, Damien. Gitchell: Did Damien just tie them all up or did anyone help Damien or Jessie: Jason helped him. Gitchell: Ok, and what did they use to tie them up? Jessie: A rope. Gitchell: Ok, what color was the rope? Jessie: Brown. Gitchell: Did you ever see the boys in the water? Jessie: Uh, yeah, down by the water. Gitchell: Alright, how did the boys get into the water? Jessie: They pulled them there into the water. Gitchell: Alright, when you say they who is it that pulled them into the water? Jessie: Jason and uh, Damien. Gitchell: Do you wear a belt? Jessie: Nope. Gitchell: Does Jason where a belt? Jessie: Unt uh (no). Gitchell: Does Damien wear a belt? Jessie: Yeap. Gitchell: What kind of belt does he wear? Jessie: A black leather belt with uh, beads uh, like little beads around it. Gitchell: With beads around it? Jessie: Like little beads you know stubbies with Gitchell: Ok, about how thick is the belt? Jessie: It's about 4 inches. Gitchell: Now, do you know what 4 inches looks like? Jessie: About like that, the belt was about like that. (Using hands to show width) Gitchell: Ok, I don't think that's quite 4 inches, but uh, probably about 3 something like that. Jessie: Uh huh. Gitchell: Which, which boys were raped? Jessie: Uh, Byers and the Branch. Gitchell: Ok, so you know them by name and face, well enough to call them by name? Jessie: Uh huh. Gitchell: Ok, did you, did you see the Moore boy, was he raped? Jessie: No. Gitchell: Alright, who raped those two boys? Jessie: Jason and Damien. Gitchell: Do you know which one raped which boy, or how did that happen? Jessie: Damien raped the Myers by hisself and and Jason and Damien raped uh the Branch. Gitchell: Alright, give that to me again now. Jessie: Damien raped uh the Myers by hisself and Jason and Damien raped uh the Branch. Gitchell: Did anyone have oral sex with the boys? Jessie: Yes, Damien and Jason. Gitchell: How many of them did they do that to? Jessie: Just two, Branch and Byers. Gitchell: How did they keep the boys quiet? Jessie: Put their hands over their mouths. Gitchell: Did they do anything else other than put their hands over their mouths? How did they finally keep them from being quiet, cause the boys bound to have been hollering? Jessie: They stuck their hands over their mouths first, and then they stuck their shirts to their mouth. Gitchell: Ok, did they do anything else to them to make them be quiet? Jessie: They stuck their thang in their mouth. Gitchell: Ok, did they, were they hitting them before that or afterwards? Jessie: Before and after, just trying to keep them off of them. Gitchell: Just all of the time? Jessie: Just trying to keep Jason and Damien off of them. Gitchell: Now they put their, whose shirts did they put in their mouth? Jessie: Damiens. Gitchell: Ok, alright hold on just a minute, -pause- Let me ask you something else, Jessie, I'm sorry, I keep coming back and forth, but I got people that want me to ask you some other questions, uh talking about oral sex, did you see, you know we had talked earlier about how Jason and uh Damien do each other, have sex with each other did they, did they have oral sex on the boys? Jessie: Yeah, they, they, one of them stuck their thang in one of the boys mouth while the other one got the other one up the butt and stuff. Gitchell: Ok, but did, did anyone go down on the boys and maybe suck theirs or something? Jessie: Not that, I didn't see nothing neither one of them do that. Gitchell: You didn't see that? Jessie: Uh, uh Gitchell: Ok, did, did they pinch their penis in anyway or were rough with it or anything like that? Jessie: I didn't see nothing like that, not rough with them, I just seen um Gitchell: You didn't see anyone go down on the boys? Jessie: Uh, uh. Gitchell: Are you sure? Jessie: Yeah. Gitchell: Ok. Pause Gave Jessie a Coke Gitchell: That Coke was kind of cold huh? Jessie: Uh huh. Gitchell: I tell ya it tasted pretty good to me though. Gitchell: Um, Jessie when, now the boys hands were tied up right? Jessie: Right. Gitchell: How did, how did, they force these boys to have oral sex on them? How did they have a hold of them? Jessie: One of them had holding them by the arms while the other one got behind them and stuff. Gitchell: Did he ever hold him up here or Jessie: Uh, the one that was holding him up there at the front grabbing him by his headlock. Gitchell: Had him in a headlock? Did he have him any other way? Jessie: He was holding him like this by his head like this and stuff (Note: was indicating the victims being held by their ears) Gitchell: Could he have been holding him up here like that? Jessie: I was too far away he was holding him up here by his head like this (Note: showed the same as above) Gitchell: So, so Jessie: And he was pulling him. Gitchell: Ok, so who was one of them doing that or both of them was doing it? Was Jason? Jessie: Jason was holding him while Damien did it and then they took turns. Gitchell: So, they both did it to all three of these boys? Jessie: Just them two as far as I know. Gitchell: Just the two of them? Jessie: Yeah. Gitchell: But they, they both Jason and Damien did it to two of the boys and they took turns? Jessie: Uh huh. Gitchell: And they would hold, tell me again about their hands on, I mean I know you're, you're holding it up here. Jessie: It was up here by their heads and stuff and was just pulling and stuff. Gitchell: Alright, so they are up here, had their hands Jessie: By their ears and pulling them and stuff. Gitchell: Alright, Ok, say, say that again for me now. Jessie: Hold them by their head, by ears and pulling Gitchell: Ok. http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmjune2.html		"Bratty Mama Leci" Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 12374 Location: Kentucky



Obscuregawdess Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:43 pm
Confessions and Statements made by Jessie Misskelley Statement of Jessie L. Misskelley, Jr. 6/3/93 Date of Birth 7/10/7 5 sex/race M/Cau RIDGE: This is Det. Bryn Ridge of the West Memphis Police Department, currently in the detective division of the West Memphis Police Department conducting an investigation of the Triple Homicide, Case File # 93-05-0666. Currently in the office with Jessie Lloyd Misskelly, Jr., DOB: 7/10/75, education: 9th grade, the place: Detective Division, todays date is 06/03/93, the time is 2:44Pm. Present in the interview is Insp. Gary Gitchell and Jessie Misskelly. Jessie, in front of me I have a rights form, and it has your signature at the bottom of it, is that your signature? JESSIE: Yes sir RIDGE: okay, we are informing you that we are Det. Sgt. Mike Allen, and Det. Bryn Ridge, and Det. Sgt. Mike Allen is the one that read this form to you earlier, is that correct? JESSIE: Yes sir RIDGE: And I was here when he read it to you. JESSIE: Yes sir RIDGE: Alright, we are police officers of the West Memphis Police Department, we are conducting an investigation for the offense Capitol Felony Murder, which was committed on or about 05/05/93, before we ask you any questions, you must know and understand your legal rights, therefore, we warn and advise you, that you have the right to remain silent , do you understand that? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: And those are your initials on the line in front of that statement? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Okay, anything you say can be used against you in court, do you understand that, JESSIE: Yes, I do RIDGE: And those are your initials? JESSIE: Yes, it is RIDGE: Alright, you have the right to talk to a lawyer for advise before we ask you any questions, and to have him with you during questioning, do you understand that? JESSIE: Yes, I do RIDGE: And those are your initals? JESSIE: Yes, it is RIDGE: If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questions, if you wish, at no cost to you, do you understand that? JESSIE: Yes, I do RIDGE: And those are your initials? JESSIE: Yes, it is RIDGE: If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time, do you understand? JESSIE: Yes, I do RIDGE: Those are your initials? JESSIE: Yes, it is RIDGE: You're up here on your own free will, you came up here to answer some questions, and basically we've found out some information during that questioning, is that correct? JESSIE: Yes sir, I did RIDGE: Okay, at the bottom of the form is a Waiver of Rights, it says that I've read this statement of my rights, and I understand what my rights are, I am willing to make a statement, and answer questions, I do not want a lawyer at this time, I understand and know what I am doing. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or force has been used against me, is all of that correct? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Okay, and you signed the bottom of the form? JESSIE: Yes, I did RIDGE: Witnessed by Michael Wayne Allen and myself, Det. Bryn Ridge. Okay, Jessie, let's go straight to that date, 05/05/93, Wednesday, early in the morning. You received a phone call is that correct? JESSIE: Yes, I did RIDGE: And who made that phone call? JESSIE: Jason Baldwin RIDGE: Alright, what occurred, what did he talk about? JESSIE: He called me and asked me if I could go to West Memphis with him and I told him, no, I had to work and stuff. He told me that he had to go to West Memphis so, him and Damian with and then I went with them. RIDGE: Alright, when? JESSIE: Wednesday RIDGE: Alright, when did you go with them? JESSIE: That morning RIDGE: 9 o'clock in the morning? JESSIE: Yes, I did. I went with them and then GITCHELL: Now, where you in a car? Whose car where you all in? JESSIE: We walked GITCHELL: You all walked? JESSIE: Right, we walked and then uh, RIDGE: Where did you go? JESSIE: We went up to Robin Hood RIDGE: You went to the Robin Hood, explain to me where those woods are. JESSIE: By uh, Blue Beacon Truck Wash. RIDGE: A little patch of woods JESSIE: A little patch of woods RIDGE: Behind Blue Beacon? JESSIE: Behind it, right there behind it. RIDGE: okay, what occurred while you were there? JESSIE: When I was there, I saw Damian hit these one boy real bad, and then uh, and he started screwing them and stuff and then uh, RIDGE: Alright, you got in front of you a picture, that was taken out of the newspaper I believe, it's got three boys and these are the three boys that were killed on that date in Robin Hood Woods, okay, which one of those three boys is it you say Damian hit? The third picture, which will be JESSIE: Michael Moore GITCHELL: This boy right here, JESSIE: Yeah, GITCHELL: Alright, that's uh the Byers boy, that's who you are pointing at? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: If you read the caption, the grizzly slain from left, 8 year old Michael Moore, Steven Branch and Christopher Byers. Okay, so you saw Damian strike Chris Byers in the head. JESSIE: Right RIDGE: What did he hit him with? JESSIE: He hit him with his fist and bruised him all up real bad, and then Jason turned around and hit Steve Branch RIDGE: Okay JESSIE: And started doing the same thing, then the other one took off, Michael Moore took off running, so I chased him and grabbed him and hold him, until they got there and then I left. RIDGE: Alright, when you get the boys back together, where were you at from the creek? JESSIE: I was up there by the Service Road RIDGE: Up by the Service Road? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Okay, now when this, when he hit the first boy, where are they at when he hits him, are you in the woods, you're on the side of big bayou, you're out in the field, where were you at? JESSIE: I was in the woods. RIDGE: In the woods. Okay, you've been down there in those woods before, can you describe to me what in those woods, what's the location where you were? JESSIE: Uh, RIDGE: Is there a path that you go down? JESSIE: Uh, down a little path RIDGE: Alright, where does that path go too? JESSIE: It leads out there close to the field, close to the interstate. RIDGE: Okay JESSIE: Close to the interstate RIDGE: When he hits the first boy and then Jason hits another boy, and one takes off running, where does he run too? JESSIE: That one, he runs out, out the park and I chased him and grabbed him and brought him back. RIDGE: Which way does he go, I mean, does he go back towards where the houses are, he's going to Blue Beacon, is he going out towards the fields, where's he running too? JESSIE: Towards the houses. RIDGE: Towards the houses? GITCHELL: Where the pipe is that goes across the yards? JESSIE: Yes, he run out there and I caught him and brought him back, and I took off. RIDGE: Okay, and when you came back a little bit later, now are all three boys are tied? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Is that right? JESSIE: Yes, and I took off and run home. RIDGE: Alright, have they got their clothes on when you saw them tied? JESSIE: No, they had them off. RIDGE: They had already gotten them off. When he first hit the boy, when Damian first hit the first boy, did they have their clothes on then? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Alright, when did they take their clothes off? JESSIE: Right after they beat up all three of them, beat them up real bad RIDGE: Beat them up real bad, and then they took their clothes off? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: And then they tied them JESSIE: Then they tied them up, tied their hands up, they started screwing them and stuff, cutting them and stuff, and I saw it and turned around and looked, and then I took off running, I went home, then they called me and asked me, how come I didn't stay, I told them, I just couldn't. RIDGE: Just couldn't stay JESSIE: I couldn't stand it to see what they were doing to them. RIDGE: okay, now when this is going on, when this is taking place, you saw somebody with a knife., who had a knife? JESSIE: Jason RIDGE: Jason had a knife, what did he cut with the knife. What did you see him cut or who did you see him cut? JESSIE: I saw him cut one of the little boys RIDGE: Alright, where did he cut him at? JESSIE: He was cutting him in the face. RIDGES: Cutting him in the face. Alright, another boy was cut I understand., where was he cut at? JESSIE: At the bottom RIDGE: On his bottom? Was he faced down and he was cutting on him, or JESSIE: He was GITCHELL: Now you're talking about bottom, do you mean right here? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: In his groin area? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: Okay RIDGE: Do you know what his penis is? JESSIE: Yeah, that's where he was cut at. RIDGE: That's where he was cut. GITCHELL: Which boy was that? JESSIE: That one right there. GITCHELL: You're talking about the Byers boy again? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: Okay RIDGE: Are you sure that he was the one that was cut? JESSIE: That's the one that I seen them cutting on. RIDGE: Alright, you know what a penis is? JESSIE: Yeah RIDGE: Alright, is that where he was cutting? JESSIE: That's where I seen them going down at, and he was on his back. I seen them going down right there real close to his penis and stuff and I saw some blood and that's when I took off. GITCHELL: Was uh, where you all close to the creek at that point? JESSIE: Yes sir GITCHELL: Where was the little boy actually at? JESSIE: He was close RIDGE: Alright, now you know where the bayou is? JESSIE: Right RIDGE: Alright, and you know where the little Creek is that goes out to the express way, and it doesn't have a lot of water in it, but it's got some water in it, and it's flowing through the, which side of that creek were you on, where you on the Memphis side of the creek or the Blue Beacon side of the creek? JESSIE: Blue Beacon. RIDGE: On the Blue Beacon JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: So, there is like a tall bank, where were you at on that bank? JESSIE: I was up there standing up there on the top. RIDGE: Alright, where were they at? JESSIE: They were at the bottom. RIDGE: On which side? JESSIE: Memphis side RIDGE: They were on the Memphis side. JESSIE: I was on RIDGE: Alright, we're going to correct that even further, that's the east side, Memphis side is the east side and you were standing at the top of the bank on the west side, were you looking down at what was going on? JESSIE: I was looking down, and after I seen all of that, I took off RIDGE: Okay, and when you left, did you hear any more hollering or anything? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Alright, you went home and about what time was it that all of this took place? JESSIE: About RIDGE: I'm not saying when they called you. I'm saying what time was it that you were actually there in the park? JESSIE: About 12 RIDGE: About noon? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Okay, was it after school had let out? JESSIE: I didn't go to school RIDGE: These little boys JESSIE: They skipped school RIDGE: They skipped school? JESSIE: They were going to catch their bus and stuff, and they were on their bikes and so, RIDGE: Alright, they were on their bikes, where were the bikes at? JESSIE: They laid their bikes down when they come out to the, when they hollered for them to come out there RIDGE: Where did they lay their bikes down at, that's what I'm asking you? JESSIE: I don't know where they laid their bikes down at, cause I was behind Damian and nem, they were way behind them. RIDGE: Okay JESSIE: When they hollered, when they seen them boys RIDGE: The little boys came on over? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Had Damian seen these boys before? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Has he done things with them before? Or had he just been watching them, JESSIE: He had been watching them. RIDGE: Has he ever had sex with them before? JESSIE: No, he's been watching them RIDGE: He's been watching them. You mentioned earlier that, one of the meetings you went to with this cult thing, they had some pictures. Describe those pictures for me. JESSIE: They had some houses, trees and stuff RIDGE: Okay, had somebody taken pictures of these boys? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Were they in the houses or were they in the trees when they took those pictures? JESSIE: They were in the houses RIDGE: At the houses? Did they take like one picture of one boy JESSIE: They were in a group RIDGE: All, these three JESSIE: There was a group of pictures of all three of them. RIDGE: All three of them would generally be together? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: How many pictures did you see, altogether? JESSIE: I just saw one GITCHELL: Okay, and it has these same three boys in it? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: You're certain of that? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: Now, did you say that the boys skipped school that day, these little boys did? JESSIE: Yes, they were going to catch, they were going somewhere and like I said, Damian and nem left before I did, I told them that I would meet them there and stuff, and it was early in the morning and so, they went ahead and met me, they went on up there and then I come up later on behind them. GITCHELL: What time did you get there? JESSIE: I got there about 9 GITCHELL: In the morning? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: Wednesday morning? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: And RIDGE: What time is it right now? JESSIE: Right now? RIDGE: Yeah, you don't know what time it is? GITCHELL: Do you not wear a watch? JESSIE: It's at home RIDGE: So JESSIE: My dad woke me up this RIDGE: so, your time period may not be exactly right in what you're saying? JESSIE: Right RIDGE: It was like earlier in the day, but you don't know exactly what time, okay, cause I've gotten some real confusion with the times that you're telling me, but now, this 9 o'clock in the evening call that you got, explain that to me. JESSIE: Well after, all of this stuff happened that night, that they done it, I went home about noon, then they called me at 9 o'clock that night, they called me. RIDGE: And what did they tell you on the telephone? JESSIE: They asked me how come I left so early and stuff, and I told them that I couldn't stay there and watch that stuff no more, so I had to do something to get out of there. RIDGE: okay, who called you? JESSIE: Jason RIDGE: And you mentioned that you heard some voice in the background? JESSIE: I heard some dingling RIDGE: And what else, I think you said that he made the call from his house? JESSIE: He made the call from his house and Damian was hollering in the background saying, we done it, we done it, what are going to do if somebody saw us, what are we going to do? RIDGE: Okay, the knives, was it one knife, two knives, was your knife there? JESSIE: Ugh, ugh, RIDGE: Now did somebody take it and used your knife, do you have a knife? JESSIE: I got one knife RIDGE: Where is it at? JESSIE: It's at home RIDGE: okay, the knife that you said Jason was using, where is it? JESSIE: Uh, I don't know what he done with it, cause after I left then they, I don't know what they done with, after I left RIDGE: He didn't tell you that he hid it somewhere? GITCHELL: I've got a feeling here, you're not quite telling me everything, now you know that we're recording everything, so this is very, very important to tell us the entire truth. If you were there the whole time, then tell us that you were there the whole time, don't leave anything out. This is very, very important, now just tell us the truth. JESSIE: I was there until they tied them up and then that's when I left, after they tied them up, I left. GITCHELL: But, you saw them cutting on the boys, JESSIE: I saw them cutting on them, and then GITCHELL: So, what else left is there, after that? JESSIE: They laid the knife down beside them and I saw them tying them up and then that's when I left, RIDGE: Were the boys conscious or were they JESSIE: They were unconscious then RIDGE: Unconscious JESSIE: And after I left they done more. RIDGE: They done more JESSIE: They started screwing them again RIDGE: Okay, how were they screwing them when you saw them? JESSIE: They, Jason stuck his in one them's mouth and Damian was screwing one of them up the ass and stuff. RIDGE: Okay, and the one that they were cutting the penis off of, did any of them are cutting the penis or whatever was being done, did they have sex with them at all? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Did either one of them? JESSIE: Jason did RIDGE: Jason did? JESSIE: Jason was screwing him while Damian stuck his in his mouth RIDGE: Okay, how did he have sex with that one? JESSIE: He was holding him down like, and Jason had his legs up in the air and that little boy was kicking, saying, 'don't, no' like that. RIDGE: Okay, he had his legs up in the air, alright, what was to keep the little boys from running off, but just their hands are tied, what's to keep them from running off? JESSIE: They beat them up so bad so they can't hardly move, they had their hands tied down and he sit on them RIDGE: You said that they had their hands tied up, tied down, were they hands tied in a fashion that they couldn't have run, you tell me. JESSIE: They could run, they just had them tied, when they knocked them down and stuff, they could move their arms and stuff, and hold them down like, wake up and raise up and the other one just put his legs up. RIDGE: Okay, so they had them under control, you were there the whole time that was taking place? JESSIE: I was there. RIDGE: Okay, none [note: this is not clear - it may be 'one'] of them were cut on the face real bad, is that what you said? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: And one of them was being cut on his penis? JESSIE: Yes sir RIDGE: Alright, GITCHELL: Did you ever use, did anyone use a stick and hit the boys with? JESSIE: Damian had kinda of a big old stick when he hit that first one, after he hit him with his fist and knocked him down and got him a big old stick and hit him. GITCHELL: What did the stick look like, I mean was it like a big log like that or is it a stick? JESSIE: I would say it was about that big around, I would say about that long. GITCHELL: Okay RIDGE: About the size of a baseball bat, maybe just a little bit bigger round? JESSIE: Yeah RIDGE: That's what you're describing with your hands, right? JESSIE: Right RIDGE: Okay, how long was the knife that Jason was using? JESSIE: About that long RIDGE: Alright, you're describing a knife that would be about 6 inches long, is that right? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: And, what kind of blade did it have on it? JESSIE: Uh, like a regular knife blade RIDGE: Was it a knife that you fold up, or was it like a hunting knife? JESSIE: It was RIDGE: Just one piece JESSIE: Just a fold up knife RIDGE: It was a folding knife? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: okay, uh does Damian have a knife? JESSIE: No RIDGE: He doesn't have one, he didn't have one that night? JESSIE: He didn't have one that night RIDGE: Did he borrow yours? JESSIE: No, he didn't borrow mine. GITCHELL: Did they have a briefcase with them? JESSIE: No GITCHELL: You didn't see a briefcase? JESSIE: I didn't see a briefcase, not unless they left it there at that day before it happened, unless they left it there then but I didn't see one that day. GITCHELL: Have you ever seen them with a briefcase before? JESSIE: I've seen them once that night, I seen them with it that night. GITCHELL: Okay, what is kept inside of that briefcase? JESSIE: They had some cocaine, and a little gun GITCHELL: Is that when you first saw the pictures of the boys? JESSIE: yes, out there in Lakeshore GITCHELL: And you saw the pictures in the briefcase? JESSIE: Yes, I think when we had that cult. GITCHELL: okay, now you have participated in this cult, right? JESSIE: Yes GITCHELL: How long have you been involved in it? JESSIE: I've been in it for about three months. GITCHELL: Okay, what is, tell me some of the things that you all do typically in the woods, as being in this cult. JESSIE: We go out kill dogs and stuff and then carry girls out there. GITCHELL: What do you all do with the girls when you're out there? JESSIE: We screw them and stuff GITCHELL: Just everybody takes a turn JESSIE: Everybody, and we have an orgee and stuff like that. GITCHELL: okay RIDGE: when you kill a dog, what do you do with that? JESSIE: We usually skin it, then make a barn fire and eat it and stuff RIDGE: okay, when you initiating somebody new come into a cult what actually is done to initiate that person into a cult? JESSIE: We usually you know, kill an animals, you know, you have to know how to handle the meat and stuff, after we kill it to see if he knows, if he can't handle it, then he don't get in. RIDGE: Okay, so he kills an animal, you mentioned earlier that he may have to eat part of that animal, what part of the animal would he eat? JESSIE: Uh, the meat off of his leg. RIDGE: The meat off of his leg. JESSIE: If he can't eat it, then he don't get in. RIDGE: Doesn't get into the cult? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Now these meetings, have they ever been violent, anybody gotten made and got into a fight? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Okay, the night you were in the woods, uh had you all been in the water? JESSIE: Yeah, we've been in the water, we were in it that night, playing around in it. RIDGE: You were playing around in the water, alright, what were you doing in the water? JESSIE: Just RIDGE: Besides just playing, the little boys, had they been in the water? Did they get into the water with you all? JESSIE: No, they didn't get into the water with us RIDGE: Okay, what were you doing in the water? JESSIE: We were just sitting there, throwing stuff at each other, RIDGE: were you all having sex? JESSIE: No, I wasn't RIDGE: You weren't? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Damian and Jason having sex? JESSIE: They took turns going up under the water RIDGE: Going up under the water, what were they doing up under the water? JESSIE: They were sitting so far away, they were in the water, I would say about five to ten seconds, then come up and then the other one would go down RIDGE: Okay, so they were just messing around in the water. They called for these boys to come over there? JESSIE: Yeah, they seen them boys and then they hollered, Damien said, hey, the little boys come up there. GITCHELL: Did they call them by name? JESSIE: No, they just hollered at them, they slowed up. GITCHELL: Where did the boys put their bikes? JESSIE: Close to right where there before you come in and they laid them down right there, and after I left I don't know what they done with the bikes. GITCHELL: You didn't do anything to the bikes at all? JESSIE: No GITCHELL: Are you sure JESSIE: Positive GITCHELL: You didn't touch the bikes? JESSIE: I didn't touch them RIDGE: You've been back to this place since that murder JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Since it (unaudible) what did you do there? Be truthful. JESSIE: I went down there and sit there, and after what they did to the boys, I just sit there RIDGE: And did what? JESSIE: Just thought, what happened to them real bad, just thought. RIDGE: Okay JESSIE: And I left and stuff, and walked home. GITCHELL: When did you go back there? JESSIE: Two or three days after it happened, and I left. RIDGE: You were there by yourself? JESSIE: I was there by myself. RIDGE: Didn't you go there with some more boys once? JESSIE: Me. David RIDGE: That particular place? JESSIE: No, not to that place RIDGE: Are you willing to go down there with us and us having a camcorder and show us where these things took place? Would you do that? JESSIE: Silent RIDGE: Wouldn't have any problem with that? JESSIE: Not that I know of, I wouldn't RIDGE: But you would be able to point out where these things took place? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: Which way the boys came from and where you all were when he hollered for the boys and stuff like that, you wouldn't have a problem with that? JESSIE: After the murder and stuff, I would say about two or three days later after it happened, I went down there and thought about it and I haven't been down there since. RIDGE: Okay, let me ask you something, now this is real serious and I want you to be real truthful, and I want you to think about it before you answer it, don't just say yes or no, real quick. I want you to think about it. Did you actually hit any of these boys? JESSIE: No GITCHELL: Now, tell us the truth JESSIE: No RIDGE: Did you actually rape any of these boys? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Did you actually kill any of these boys? JESSIE: No RIDGE: Did you see any of the boys actually killed? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: okay, which one did you see killed? JESSIE: That one right there. GITCHELL: Now, you're pointing to the Byers boy again? JESSIE: Yes RIDGE: How was he actually killed? JESSIE: He choked him real bad and all RIDGE: Choking him? Okay, what was he choking him with? JESSIE: His hands, like a stick, he had a bit old stick, kinda holding it over his neck. RIDGE: okay, so he was choking him to the point where he actually went unconscious, so at that point, you felt like he was dead? JESSIE: Yeah RIDGE: Okay, did any of the other two boys, were you there when they were actually killed? JESSIE: I don't know RIDGE: You say that you got sick, so that's what you were saying, did you throw u