| What were the reasons Paulus did not become a judge? - Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next |
| View previous topic
:: View next topic |
resigned
 Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:15 pm |
|
|
|
Thank you, dugo. I follow some of what you are saying, but without any knowledge or access to Aruban Court rulings it is hard to actually determine why Paulus was never nominated and at what point in his "training"process he was told that it wasn't going work out.
|
|
Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28555
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
|
|
|
 |
 |
 |
|
| dugo
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:43 pm |
|
|
|
| resigned wrote: | | Thank you, dugo. I follow some of what you are saying, but without any knowledge or access to Aruban Court rulings it is hard to actually determine why Paulus was never nominated and at what point in his "training"process he was told that it wasn't going work out. |
Even if you had all of them + mock rulings compared with decisions from an experienced judge it is not going to tell you much, unless they are full of blatant errors..
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| resigned
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:49 pm |
|
|
|
| dugo wrote: |
Even if you had all of them + mock rulings compared with decisions from an experienced judge it is not going to tell you much, unless they are full of blatant errors.. |
That's what I would like to look for..... 
|
|
Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28555
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Trixie
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:52 pm |
|
|
|
| resigned wrote: | | Thank you, dugo. I follow some of what you are saying, but without any knowledge or access to Aruban Court rulings it is hard to actually determine why Paulus was never nominated and at what point in his "training"process he was told that it wasn't going work out. |
Didn't Paul find out his wasn't going to make Judge about a week or so before Natalee arrived in Aruba?
|
|
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6727
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| resigned
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:13 pm |
|
|
|
| Trixie wrote: |
Didn't Paul find out his wasn't going to make Judge about a week or so before Natalee arrived in Aruba? |
I honestly don't recall when it was reported that he was a failed judge in training at the time of the case......
This info is from RWV June 27, 2005
Paul Van der Sloot Background
Thanks to Hasibokus for this translation of a recent Dutch article on Paul(us) Van der Sloot. It's interesting background reading on the man just released while his son remains in custody.
My headline for the article wouldn't have been quite so glowing. There appears to be more than a hint of self interest in his biggest claim to fame and no mention of his potential judgeship having been de-railed prior to the Natalee Holloway case based upon performance evaluations - according to Fox.
| Quote: | | Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. |
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html
So apparently FOX reported that his judge-in-training period was derailed due to performance evaluations...but if he hadn't actually "Judged" (according to the Hasibokus article) .....what did he fail at? When is another question....it's confusing to me.
Would being appointed in the Antillean Court be the same as being appointed in just an Aruban Court? I thought that was why they flew a Judge in from Curacao...because he a Curacao Judge was still on the Antillean Court, but was not presiding on the Aruban Court? So basically that didn't really make a difference?
|
|
Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28555
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| iquitos
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:23 pm |
|
|
|
dugo
... "b.t.w. Nobody is ever sure he will become a full judge. If a position opens up 3 candidates are nominated, one is picked out.. (co-optatie + ballotage?)" ...
i never saw anything but that he never heard a case. maybe he clerked, assisted in the research and drafting of opinions?
appointment:
Ministerie van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties
Persbericht Rijksministerraad
20 december 2002
BENOEMINGEN GEMEENSCHAPPELIJK HOF VAN JUSTITIE VAN DE NEDERLANDSE ANTILLEN EN ARUBA
De Rijksministerraad heeft op voorstel van minister Remkes van Binnenlandse Zaken en Koninkrijksrelaties ingestemd met een tweetal benoemingen.
De heer mr. G.E.M. Polkamp (52) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. Momenteel is de heer Polkamp plaatsvervangend lid van het Hof. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003.
De heer mr. P.A.P.J. van der Sloot (50) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. De heer van der Sloot is nu werkzaam als kabinetschef bij de procureur-generaal van Aruba. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003 voor een periode van drie jaar.
RVD, 20.12.2002
Meer informatie
Benoemingen Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba
|
|
beady eyed rat
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 15063
Location: nowhere man
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:51 pm |
|
|
|
| resigned wrote: |
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html
So apparently FOX reported that his judge-in-training period was derailed due to performance evaluations...but if he hadn't actually "Judged" (according to the Hasibokus article) .....what did he fail at? When is another question....it's confusing to me.
Would being appointed in the Antillean Court be the same as being appointed in just an Aruban Court? I thought that was why they flew a Judge in from Curacao...because he a Curacao Judge was still on the Antillean Court, but was not presiding on the Aruban Court? So basically that didn't really make a difference? |
There is the common court of justice of Aruba and the Antilles, you get stationed in Aruba or the Antilles part. Aruba and the Antilles each have their own codes of law on matters that don't relate to the Kingdom. Eg, The Netherlands, Aruba and the Antilles can independently change laws, like changing the maximum sentence on theft. Laws that govern the Kingdom, like, how can you become a citizen of the kingdom, have to be passed by all three parts, Netherlands, Aruba and the Antilles.
Aruba flew in judge(s) to perform oversight of the investigation (we call them rechter-commisaris if they are in that oversight role) that were stationed in the Antilles part of the court system to prevent the idea that they would rule favourably for Paul (and son), an Aruban judge would be likely to know him from the coffee machine or the uber secret raadskamer (council chamber -tr?) meetings.
Curacao is just the major geographical bulk of the Antilles.
There is work in progress to dismantle the Antilles as a country and create 2 new ones .. Curacao and st Maarten. What's left, like saba, will become Dutch overseas municipalities. The common court is going to face some reorganisation too.
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| resigned
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:07 pm |
|
|
|
| dugo wrote: |
There is the common court of justice of Aruba and the Antilles, you get stationed in Aruba or the Antilles part. Aruba and the Antilles each have their own codes of law on matters that don't relate to the Kingdom. Eg, The Netherlands, Aruba and the Antilles can independently change laws, like changing the maximum sentence on theft. Laws that govern the Kingdom, like, how can you become a citizen of the kingdom, have to be passed by all three parts, Netherlands, Aruba and the Antilles.
Aruba flew in judge(s) to perform oversight of the investigation (we call them rechter-commisaris if they are in that oversight role) that were stationed in the Antilles part of the court system to prevent the idea that they would rule favourably for Paul (and son), an Aruban judge would be likely to know him from the coffee machine or the uber secret raadskamer (council chamber -tr?) meetings.
Curacao is just the major geographical bulk of the Antilles.
There is work in progress to dismantle the Antilles as a country and create 2 new ones .. Curacao and st Maarten. What's left, like saba, will become Dutch overseas municipalities. The common court is going to face some reorganisation too. |
I understand that - but according to the December 2002 article.....
| Quote: | | De heer mr. P.A.P.J. van der Sloot (50) wordt voorgedragen voor benoeming tot plaatsvervangend lid van het Gemeenschappelijk Hof van Justitie van de Nederlandse Antillen en Aruba. De heer van der Sloot is nu werkzaam als kabinetschef bij de procureur-generaal van Aruba. De benoeming gaat in op 1 januari 2003 voor een periode van drie jaar. |
........Paulus was appointed to both the Aruban and Antilles - so what difference did it make to fly anyone in...Paulus would have had known the Antillean Judges anyway (at least on a professional level) - was it just for show? Maybe I'm missing something....I realize it would be more likely that he was more familiar with the Aruban Judges, but if his appointment was for both places - it just seems like they would all know each other to me (and have their friends and foes amongst themselves, like any group of people)
|
|
Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28555
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:10 pm |
|
|
|
| resigned wrote: | | So apparently FOX reported that his judge-in-training period was derailed due to performance evaluations...but if he hadn't actually "Judged" (according to the Hasibokus article) .....what did he fail at? |
g-d knows, that's not public record, could be something like, write up mock ruling on behind-closed-doors issue of extending pretrial detention of C. Riminal and completely blowing it when compared to what the judge in charge ruled.. Or maybe related to how he performed as chief of the cabinet.. Because of the nature of what raio interns get to see this isn't stuff that can be piped directly to random online discussion boards really.. couple that with the general nature of performance reviews of interns and you get the idea why it stays private. it is none of our business just like anyone else's job performance chat with the boss, or natalee's answers to her math tests or scholarship application letters
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:25 pm |
|
|
|
| resigned wrote: |
........Paulus was appointed to both the Aruban and Antilles - so what difference did it make to fly anyone in...Paulus would have had known the Antillean Judges anyway (at least on a professional level) - was it just for show? Maybe I'm missing something....I realize it would be more likely that he was more familiar with the Aruban Judges, but if his appointment was for both places - it just seems like they would all know each other to me (and have their friends and foes amongst themselves, like any group of people) |
Any prosecutor worth its salt runs to the recusal chambers (or just threathens with doing that) until they get a judge that doesn't have a sign of partiality.
Indeed, it doesn't make a fucking difference on these fucking boards until they replaced the judge with a grand jury of natalees peers from alabama that would only make rulings against suspects*, so if you don't mind I stop talking to walls when it comes to the integrity of the honourable Smid/Wit and all...
*all10suspects wrote:
Why is Judge Smid a judge? He clearly made rulings in favor of the suspects. IMO he should not have made any rulings on the case.
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| iquitos
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:31 pm |
|
|
|
dugo's recusal point is the
best argument against the urban myth around the blogs that the judges in the case were biased in van der sloot's favor because of their relationships with his father. if that were the case any prosecutor worth its salt would have had the judge taken off the case. nevva happened. and the om's action in arresting paulus removes any doubt about their relationship with him.
|
|
beady eyed rat
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 15063
Location: nowhere man
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:35 pm |
|
|
|
Re: dugo's recusal point is the
| iquitos wrote: | | best argument against the urban myth around the blogs that the judges in the case were biased in van der sloot's favor because of their relationships with his father. if that were the case any prosecutor worth its salt would have had the judge taken off the case. nevva happened. and the om's action in arresting paulus removes any doubt about their relationship with him. |
No man, completely refuted by the urban myth that his weekend sleepover with his police friends like karin and van der straten was part of the great coverup show..
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:46 pm |
|
|
|
Sorry for going completely cynical on you here, you don't deserve that.. I thought I had seen it all after years of cleghorn / grannytoad / iwabwu / all10 / longtom / doc etc.. .. running into a koolaid covered dutch poster (L) must have worn me a little thin..
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| liesbeth
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:25 am |
|
|
|
Last edited by liesbeth on Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 908
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Knipoog
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:58 am |
|
|
|
They fly KLM.
|
|
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 980
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bongo
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:30 am |
|
|
|
| dugo wrote: |
Yes bongo, but you will have to wait 6 years. |
Imagine: driving a car too fast: paying your ticket [CJIB or stante pede] and you can't become a judge? You'll have to wait 6 years??
Noooo... paying your ticket [boete/ bekeuring] means case closed. No OM-interferrence [I mean by ways of OvJ/ judge]. No registration in criminal record. Unless the fast driving was outrageous. High ticket price? Or facing the OvJ? Judge?
Yes, registration criminal record  For sure.
Now, suppose I pee in public  receiving a ticket from the OM [police]. Penalty let's say: 75 EUR. Case closed. No filing in a criminal record.
I can become a judge rightaway -hurrayy.
But: when I say WTF I will not pay this peeing-ticket because I don't agree, it was an urgent  situation and I rather prefer having a fight with a judge  :
Guess judge says 'you were/ are right': no registration criminal record
Guess judge says 'you were/ are sooooo wrong: registration criminal record. I will probably not become a judge within 6 years.
Suppose I show my private parts in a shopping mall  and I receive a ticket for let's say 150 EUR. Suppose I pay: registration with OM [because of height, over 100 EUR I believe]
Suppose I disagree, again preferring to have a fight with a judge:
Judge says: you are right; I do understand the boebie-showing, you don't need to be punished for that: no registration!!
But if the judge says: you were wrong, this was a ridiculous action: registration criminal file!
Concl.: showing my boebies in a shopping mall, followed by meeting a judge in court can still allow me to become a judge within 6/ 10 years.. believe it or not!!
Om een lang verhaal nog langer te maken gheghe:
Concl.:
The Dutch legal system is presented [not meaning you Dugo!] like some very strict black-white 'intstitution', well, it is NOT like that AT ALL. [happily!!].
Consequently the requirements for becoming a judge is not a black-white situation as well.
Of course every individual wanting to become a judge will be scanned throughfully according to the SRM but not in such black white [rude!] way.. It's more like a 3D comparison of pro's and con's..
Last edited by Bongo on Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:37 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1153
Location: The Netherlands
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bongo
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:36 am |
|
|
|
| liesbeth wrote: | So Dugo, you know it all better, you are the only one who can explain the law, you are trying to tell that Paulus failed so Karin Jansen and ALL the Dutch paper are wrong.
BUT you can not tell WHY Paulus failed.
All of the sudden it failed. 
Why oh, why was there talked about the fact that minors went to casino's in Aruba seriously in June after Natalee disappeared.
Because nobody noticed Paulus went with his minor son to a casico?
How it is possible that Dutch judges fly over from Amsterdam to Aruba for courtcases (I know it happens) while the law is different? |
Haha LOL, where and when did I read this before..
|
|
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1153
Location: The Netherlands
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:26 am |
|
|
|
| liesbeth wrote: | So Dugo, you know it all better, you are the only one who can explain the law, you are trying to tell that Paulus failed so Karin Jansen and ALL the Dutch paper are wrong.
|
Oh, please do tell, which newspaper wrote that Paul isn't a judge because of a casino visit? Pray tell where did Karin suggest that.
| liesbeth wrote: |
BUT you can not tell WHY Paulus failed.
All of the sudden it failed.
|
But YOU know for a fact it has to do with casino visit.
Three years later it is all the sudden about a casino visit. NOT!
| liesbeth wrote: |
Why oh, why was there talked about the fact that minors went to casino's in Aruba seriously in June after Natalee disappeared.
|
Only Americans did back then, they are the ones with a huge hangup about underage anything and you swallowed the Koolaid!
| liesbeth wrote: | | Because nobody noticed Paulus went with his minor son to a casico? |
Nobody in their right mind holds Paul legally responsible for the general failure of the dienst Casinowezen.
| liesbeth wrote: |
How it is possible that Dutch judges fly over from Amsterdam to Aruba for courtcases (I know it happens) while the law is different? |
Despite the crisis KLM is still in business. The laws are not radically different and the guys and girls after learning for at least a decade know how to read a friggin' lawbook and jurisprudentie know how to do it. If the law is the same, why doesn't the Holland Casino fly to Aruba to exploit its legal monopoly in Aruba?
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| all10suspects
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:41 am |
|
|
|
Do you know of any other people who have failed to become a judge after starting the judge in training program? Not realy names would just like a number of people that may have failed. Anyway of fidning that out? Maybe it is just not that easy to become a judge!
|
|
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 6356
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| dugo
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:07 am |
|
|
|
| all10suspects wrote: | | Do you know of any other people who have failed to become a judge after starting the judge in training program? Not realy names would just like a number of people that may have failed. Anyway of fidning that out? Maybe it is just not that easy to become a judge! |
via http://www.ssr.nl/index_en.php maybe? One of my friends takes the OM track of RAIO atm, it is definately not a piece of cake..
|
|
Dashing Dutch Dynamo Dude
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6129
Location: L4L
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| liesbeth
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:15 am |
|
|
|
Last edited by liesbeth on Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 908
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| liesbeth
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:27 am |
|
|
|
Last edited by liesbeth on Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 908
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Knipoog
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:39 am |
|
|
|
| liesbeth wrote: | | Quote: | liesbeth wrote:
So Dugo, you know it all better, you are the only one who can explain the law, you are trying to tell that Paulus failed so Karin Jansen and ALL the Dutch paper are wrong.
dugo Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:26 am
Oh, please do tell, which newspaper wrote that Paul isn't a judge because of a casino visit? Pray tell where did Karin suggest that. |
You’re twisting and turning. First the VanderSloot team was trying to say Jorans father did not work as a judge in training anymore at the moment Natalee disappeared, than the team is trying to say that gambling under 17 and entering casino’s is not against the law on Aruba, and on and on.
No you are trying to say that I told that this was the reason.
I never said that, but most likely it is one of the reasons or the reason.
| Quote: | liesbeth Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:56 am
What were the reasons Paulus did not become a judge?
Joran's father (a judge in training) was responsible for his minor son.
He went with his minor son to a casino to play in a poker game, while it is against the law that minors gamble in casinos.
One logical explanation that Jorans father could not become a judge anymore is the fact that he went with his minor son to a casino to play in a poker game.
In Holland judges are supposed to be integer and are not supposed to support other people in illegal activities. |
A judge is supposed to represent the law. It is hilarious that a judge is judging cases like this, while he went himself with his minor son to a casino. We are not talking about a bus driver or a doctor we are talking about someone who is supposed to represent the law going against that same law.
De law demands from people who are applying to be a judge that they know their responsibility and are integer themselves. |
Can you give some examples of cases like this and the outcome?
TIA.
|
|
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 980
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| liesbeth
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:46 am |
|
|
|
Last edited by liesbeth on Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 908
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| all10suspects
Posted:
Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:57 am |
|
|
|
A failed judge becomes a lawyer. I wonder why it is allowed to have
Paul working for Jorans lawyer?
|
|
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 6356
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
