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liesbeth
 Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:17 pm |
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Last edited by liesbeth on Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Black-Tulip
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:19 pm |
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| GBMW wrote: |
Mallory was probably talking about a part of Jorans' confession; where Joran shows how Natalee was shaking. |
Did he say that was funny? Was he laughing? I missed it.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| GBMW
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:38 pm |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: |
Did he say that was funny? Was he laughing? I missed it. |
| Quote: | Mallory wrote:
I thought his imitation of Natalee dying was one of the sickest things I have ever seen.
Normal apparently to some.
Alvin wrote:
What are you talking about ? |
I was answering Alvin's question...what are talking about?
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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| henk
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:58 pm |
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| sarge wrote: | henk, I don't think you can ever be sure. Obviously, if you are not a cigarette smoker you will detect the odor on clothes or even hair.
The pot I think kids can hide the usage.
You can talk to them and know who their friends are too to the best of your ability. Try to keep them busy in sports or other activities which take a lot of energy and encourage them in their studies. I'm sure you do all of that.
Keep your eyes and ears open all the time.
I had 3 and my daughter was hardest one.
Funny now though her teenage twins she is so strict on. |
LOL.. I was a wild kid smoking pot now and then.. A loooonnngg time ago..  I did a lot my parents didn't want me to do, but I was always aware of right and wrong and was never in trouble with the law..
And now I am strict with my kids.. Difference is.. I talk WITH them..
I tell them how stupid I was starting smoking and how difficult it is to stop.. BTW I mean normal sigarettes
Last edited by henk on Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 814
Location: nederland
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| resigned
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:58 pm |
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| henk wrote: |
I don't think that's strange.. I have 3 teenagers.. One 18 year old en twins 17 year old..  They do drink alcohol during the weekends.. I know..
They don't smoke.. I think.. They are not on pils.. I hope..
We talk about it.. And they say they don't.. But how can you be absolutely sure  |
There is always home drug testing ..
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Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28593
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
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| sarge
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:03 pm |
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| resigned wrote: |
There is always home drug testing .. |
I never thought about that. I don't think it was available when I had teenagers but I'll bet a lot of parents don't even think about it. Sounds like a good idea.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 5181
Location: georgia
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| henk
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:04 pm |
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| resigned wrote: |
There is always home drug testing .. |
I don't known if you could buy it in Holland, but even if I could, I would not.. I want to trust my kids on there word..
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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 814
Location: nederland
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| sandraK
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:12 pm |
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Boat Drink Room Hostess
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 6505
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| resigned
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:20 pm |
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| sarge wrote: |
I never thought about that. I don't think it was available when I had teenagers but I'll bet a lot of parents don't even think about it. Sounds like a good idea. |
It would be the step I would take right before they got "tough-loved" out of the house. 
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Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 28593
Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
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| sandraK
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:27 pm |
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| resigned wrote: |
It would be the step I would take right before they got "tough-loved" out of the house. |
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Boat Drink Room Hostess
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Mallory
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:18 pm |
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| henk wrote: | | Last quote does not exists! |
No, you attached your BLAH BLAH BLAH to MY post, meaning it is a direct attack on my own post.
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Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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| Mallory
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:23 pm |
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| Alvin wrote: |
What are you talking about ? |
I'm talking about where Joran imitates Natalee shaking as she dies, according to him, smirking his ass off and saying why does this always have to happen to ME, patrick.
Not once but twice he does this shuddering motion with apparent hilarity and glee.
Call it normal all you like, it isn't.
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Joined: 23 Apr 2008
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| resigned
Posted:
Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:03 pm |
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| Mallory wrote: |
I'm talking about where Joran imitates Natalee shaking as she dies, according to him, smirking his ass off and saying why does this always have to happen to ME, patrick.
Not once but twice he does this shuddering motion with apparent hilarity and glee.
Call it normal all you like, it isn't. |
It's not normal - most people would call 911 and try to help the person...not first worry about how it all will effect them.
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Click your heels together...
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: "Onboard" pathenry's desk
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| GBMW
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:31 am |
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| Mallory wrote: |
I'm talking about where Joran imitates Natalee shaking as she dies, according to him, smirking his ass off and saying why does this always have to happen to ME, patrick.
Not once but twice he does this shuddering motion with apparent hilarity and glee.
Call it normal all you like, it isn't. |
Anyone who thinks that's normal probably isn't normal.
Whatever 'normal' is (before I get asked to define it. LOL)
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| frazerclan
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:37 am |
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What's a normal 17 year old?
Seems like you are accepting that Joran was there but had nothing to do with her (alleged) demise.
If that is the case just what do you think he should be charged with and are you prepared to accept the legislated penalty and move on?
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** Timeout **
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1595
Location: Oz
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| GBMW
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:51 am |
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| frazerclan wrote: | What's a normal 17 year old?
Seems like you are accepting that Joran was there but had nothing to do with her (alleged) demise.
If that is the case just what do you think he should be charged with and are you prepared to accept the legislated penalty and move on? |
I believe Joran was there when something happened to Natalee but I'm not so sure he had nothing to do with her demise. Otherwise I think he would have handled things differently. That night and later on.
If he had nothing to do with her demise, he wasn't capable to declare someone dead and probably those / the person who helped him weren't capable to do so either. What if she was in some kind of coma? And Natalee was buried alive - put in water to drown? I don't know who actually did that - who was there...but that's murder IMO so I would like to see those who did that to be charged with murder. If Joran was around that - got help and went along with that...he helped with murder.
And if she died of natural causes + she was actually dead (someone around that could determine that) & thus he was not involved in murder but 'just' disposal of a body: I have no words for that as well. The disrepect towards a human being and so many people....the deceit, betrayal, not giving loved ones the chance of a proper goodbye, making money out of it. Disposing of a body might only be 6 months in prison...IMO that jailtime doesn't fit the hurt that was caused.
Joran was quite young at the time; already a bit out of control...his character / behaviour a bit troublesome. But with some guidance I think he would have turned out much differently than the person he seems to be these days. I do think what happened that night & since then had a huge impact on him.
If he was involved I hope he gets charged and convicted appropiately....the same for everybody else who's involved (that night and those who helped with keeping it a secret as well); but even more I hope he takes - they take responsibility for what he / they did then - acknowledge things for himself / themselves, his / their & Natalee's loved ones. I hope he - they would do that...take the consequences, deal with his - their issues...and move on and for others to let him - them do so as well.
I check the boards, post & talk to my online friends....it has my interest & I like certain people a lot.
But I'm not one of Natalee's loved ones...it's not for me to accept anything or to move on. I care...yes and I would find it unjustice and sad if things stay the way they are now (because of the opinion I have) but I don't need to let go in an 'extreme way' if they would.
FTR: I do know that officially Natalee is 'just' missing....all of the above is JMO.
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:30 am |
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| resigned wrote: |
There is always home drug testing .. |
Oh what a wonderful way to build trust with teens. NOT! 
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Black-Tulip
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:40 am |
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| Bubbles wrote: |
Oh what a wonderful way to build trust with teens. NOT! |
How about a lie detector test? Or hire a private detective to watch every move they make. You can also lock them up.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:53 am |
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| GBMW wrote: | | frazerclan wrote: | What's a normal 17 year old?
Seems like you are accepting that Joran was there but had nothing to do with her (alleged) demise.
If that is the case just what do you think he should be charged with and are you prepared to accept the legislated penalty and move on? |
I believe Joran was there when something happened to Natalee but I'm not so sure he had nothing to do with her demise. Otherwise I think he would have handled things differently. That night and later on.
If he had nothing to do with her demise, he wasn't capable to declare someone dead and probably those / the person who helped him weren't capable to do so either. What if she was in some kind of coma? And Natalee was buried alive - put in water to drown? I don't know who actually did that - who was there...but that's murder IMO so I would like to see those who did that to be charged with murder. If Joran was around that - got help and went along with that...he helped with murder.
And if she died of natural causes + she was actually dead (someone around that could determine that) & thus he was not involved in murder but 'just' disposal of a body: I have no words for that as well. The disrepect towards a human being and so many people....the deceit, betrayal, not giving loved ones the chance of a proper goodbye, making money out of it. Disposing of a body might only be 6 months in prison...IMO that jailtime doesn't fit the hurt that was caused.
Joran was quite young at the time; already a bit out of control...his character / behaviour a bit troublesome. But with some guidance I think he would have turned out much differently than the person he seems to be these days. I do think what happened that night & since then had a huge impact on him.
If he was involved I hope he gets charged and convicted appropiately....the same for everybody else who's involved (that night and those who helped with keeping it a secret as well); but even more I hope he takes - they take responsibility for what he / they did then - acknowledge things for himself / themselves, his / their & Natalee's loved ones. I hope he - they would do that...take the consequences, deal with his - their issues...and move on and for others to let him - them do so as well.
I check the boards, post & talk to my online friends....it has my interest & I like certain people a lot.
But I'm not one of Natalee's loved ones...it's not for me to accept anything or to move on. I care...yes and I would find it unjustice and sad if things stay the way they are now (because of the opinion I have) but I don't need to let go in an 'extreme way' if they would.
FTR: I do know that officially Natalee is 'just' missing....all of the above is JMO. |
If you believe that tape and he was there when she died, (and there are very noticeable ways even the untrained eye on a 17 yo would know SOMETIMES and i think this would be one) he still did nothing wrong by going home. He is NOT the one who actually disposed of her body. Ostensibly that was Draury. WHat is of serious concern is why beth had ZERO interest in talking to or tracking down this Draury person. One would think a concerned mother would want to speak to the last person with her daughter and ask all those questions oh was she dead? how did you know? why did you do this? etc etc. But nooooooooooooooooooo. Beth just wanted Joran to be guilty, full stop. And since she "CLAIMS" to believe the tape, why has she NEVER held a memorial service to honor and celebrate the life of Natalee? Not very Christian of her, but I never bought her faith crap anyway, it was used as a source of convenience or to try to snag John Ramsey.
If Joran was with her when she died and assume for a moment Draury took care of things while Joran went home, he was never given an opportunity to come clean. He was backed into a corner from the moment the posse arrived and was attacked thereafter. I can truly understand why he would run away as a 17 yo. I fault beth for denying dave the truth about what happened as well as everyone else. She lied to him from day one anyway and he just lacked the cojones to stand up to her. Then she created this world stage for herself where she could play Sarah Bernhart and she played her role well.
If you believe Joran actually took part in the disposal of Natalee, and I vehemently disagree, but agree to assume for the sake of argument, then first you'd need to have Natalee dead. But beth wanted to leapfrog that, such that the actual death of Natalee was not important, it was where her body went AFTER the fact. Now I find that extraordinary, b/c the normal person would be more concerned about finding their daughter alive or IF dead, how did she die? What happened? WHat were the circumstances surrounding? WHat were her last moments? After that, does anything much matter? (to the loved ones I mean, not from a legal perspective).
I think beth and American media were hellbent on destroying Joran's life when his biggest mistake was meeting some stupid girls from MB that were way out of their league and totally out of control. This is the real tragedy. Natalee's death was self induced and while sad, she made her choice. But the hounding of Joran and making false accusations about him and his family was just so wrong in every way.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:04 am |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: |
Did he say that was funny? Was he laughing? I missed it. |
No he didn't say it was funny. I imagine it scared the shit out of him.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| liesbeth
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:05 am |
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Last edited by liesbeth on Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:05 am |
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| Black-Tulip wrote: |
How about a lie detector test? Or hire a private detective to watch every move they make. You can also lock them up. |
My father would have loved your ideas! So I said I'm otta here, I'm going to college in CA!
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:14 am |
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| liesbeth wrote: | Why was this?
| Quote: | Furthermore we saw that Paul van der Sloot probably used the system on 30 May, 2005, at approximately 20:32. We assume this because of logging in on hotmail.com. We saw that from around 20:34 until 20:37, several sites were visited with a relation to shares and stock markets. At 20:36 and 29 seconds the site beursplein-5-.nl was visited. After this, at 20:37 and 05 seconds, a search was done through the site Google.com on the word “alcohol”. At 20:37 and 07 seconds images were searched through the site Google.com with the word “alcohol” and the word “beer”. For the rest we saw that, via the images that were found on Google, the underlying websites were clicked on. Furthermore a search was done via the site Google for images with the word “drugs”. And here as well we saw that the underlying websites were clicked on, via the images that were found through Google. The websites that were visited this way contained information about alcohol and drugs, the risks for young people, and a law firm.
Looking at the date belonging to the files we assume that the visited websites were only looked at briefly. For the rest we saw that a few images were saved in the directory C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\alcohol. This directory appeared to be gone from the system. |
The story for "just in case"? |
Where is that from?
I think it demonstrates a naive lawyer father checking worse case scenario. I would do the same thing if i was him and didn't know what I know. I see nothing strange from a legal point of view which is the way lawyers typically view things.
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| Bubbles
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:17 am |
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| resigned wrote: |
It's not normal - most people would call 911 and try to help the person...not first worry about how it all will effect them. |
oh, is that right? well isn't it interesting her own mother was more concerned how it would affect HER image than Natalee's own wellbeing? IE, if she had overdosed, the LAST place she should be is in a plane with the change in air pressure unless of course beth wanted her to have a heart attack. As in quick, let's sneak her off the island before anyone knows the truth.
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| Bongo
Posted:
Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:26 am |
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| Bubbles wrote: |
If you believe that tape and he was there when she died, (and there are very noticeable ways even the untrained eye on a 17 yo would know SOMETIMES and i think this would be one) he still did nothing wrong by going home. He is NOT the one who actually disposed of her body. Ostensibly that was Draury. WHat is of serious concern is why beth had ZERO interest in talking to or tracking down this Draury person. One would think a concerned mother would want to speak to the last person with her daughter and ask all those questions oh was she dead? how did you know? why did you do this? etc etc. But nooooooooooooooooooo. Beth just wanted Joran to be guilty, full stop. And since she "CLAIMS" to believe the tape, why has she NEVER held a memorial service to honor and celebrate the life of Natalee? Not very Christian of her, but I never bought her faith crap anyway, it was used as a source of convenience or to try to snag John Ramsey.
If Joran was with her when she died and assume for a moment Draury took care of things while Joran went home, he was never given an opportunity to come clean. He was backed into a corner from the moment the posse arrived and was attacked thereafter. I can truly understand why he would run away as a 17 yo. I fault beth for denying dave the truth about what happened as well as everyone else. She lied to him from day one anyway and he just lacked the cojones to stand up to her. Then she created this world stage for herself where she could play Sarah Bernhart and she played her role well.
If you believe Joran actually took part in the disposal of Natalee, and I vehemently disagree, but agree to assume for the sake of argument, then first you'd need to have Natalee dead. But beth wanted to leapfrog that, such that the actual death of Natalee was not important, it was where her body went AFTER the fact. Now I find that extraordinary, b/c the normal person would be more concerned about finding their daughter alive or IF dead, how did she die? What happened? WHat were the circumstances surrounding? WHat were her last moments? After that, does anything much matter? (to the loved ones I mean, not from a legal perspective).
I think beth and American media were hellbent on destroying Joran's life when his biggest mistake was meeting some stupid girls from MB that were way out of their league and totally out of control. This is the real tragedy. Natalee's death was self induced and while sad, she made her choice. But the hounding of Joran and making false accusations about him and his family was just so wrong in every way. |
BRAVO BUBBLES!
Finally someone who dares to speak out loud about the destroying of Joran's life, because that's is actually what all this is leading to. Humiliation, character murder on this boy, his father, mother and even his younger brothers. With thanks to all these blown up super stupid 'hero's' like PRdV and his team, PvdE, posters on forums with their moral crab, judging about how Joran 'should' have acted in the past, should act today, about what is 'normal' behaviour - they should feel ashamed of themselves - so utterly wrong, evelish! No matter what will happen in future, Joran innocent or not, I find all of the accusing and scamming disgusting! Even heavy criminals do not deserve being treated like that.
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Location: The Netherlands
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