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Calliope
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Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:57 am |
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| Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | Exactly. So what is his point? He's doing nothing more than taking the focus off his client. He's trying to direct blame towards the MB kids or some "MYSTERIOUS" stranger using Natalee's pass key?
Pffft. Ridiculous. |
I disagree. I did not hear him say anything remotely like that. In fact, I would guess he is WONDERING if NH used the key? |
Yes, he could be implying this, that NH used the pass key...but as you can read in my posts, this is not possible if we are to believe Joran's and Deepak's stories. Why would Joe T. contradict his client's story? |
He's not. He's trying to bring out the possibility that Natalee went back to her hotel. If he can prove this, his client would be off the hook. |
Joran says he left C&C at closing time. Closing is at 1:00am. Joe T. says pass key was used at 1:26am. Neither Joran nor Deepak say they stopped at the HI after leaving from C&C's with Natalee in the car.
Simple. Could NOT have been Natalee at 1:26am. according to Joran and Deepak's stories. |
Ketek-
I think you're missing the point.
Joe T. never said that Natalee used her key at 1:26 am. He only said that her key was used at that time. Could she have given her key to one of her roommates at C&C's? Ruth maybe?
All I am trying to say is that Joe mentioned two things: a witness who saw Natalee back at the hotel at about 3:00 am and that her key was used at the three times mentioned previously. Now who would be the most logical people to help clarify the key times? Natalee's roommates. |
Nope. Don't think I missed Joe T.'s point. You're not understanding that according to his own client's statements, it could NOT be Natalee using the pass key - at least not at 1:26am.
What is the big deal about the other girls, for whatever reason, using her pass key? |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show.
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| Ketek
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:58 am |
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| Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | Exactly. So what is his point? He's doing nothing more than taking the focus off his client. He's trying to direct blame towards the MB kids or some "MYSTERIOUS" stranger using Natalee's pass key?
Pffft. Ridiculous. |
I disagree. I did not hear him say anything remotely like that. In fact, I would guess he is WONDERING if NH used the key? |
Yes, he could be implying this, that NH used the pass key...but as you can read in my posts, this is not possible if we are to believe Joran's and Deepak's stories. Why would Joe T. contradict his client's story? |
He's not. He's trying to bring out the possibility that Natalee went back to her hotel. If he can prove this, his client would be off the hook. |
Joran says he left C&C at closing time. Closing is at 1:00am. Joe T. says pass key was used at 1:26am. Neither Joran nor Deepak say they stopped at the HI after leaving from C&C's with Natalee in the car.
Simple. Could NOT have been Natalee at 1:26am. according to Joran and Deepak's stories. |
Ketek-
I think you're missing the point.
Joe T. never said that Natalee used her key at 1:26 am. He only said that her key was used at that time. Could she have given her key to one of her roommates at C&C's? Ruth maybe?
All I am trying to say is that Joe mentioned two things: a witness who saw Natalee back at the hotel at about 3:00 am and that her key was used at the three times mentioned previously. Now who would be the most logical people to help clarify the key times? Natalee's roommates. |
Nope. Don't think I missed Joe T.'s point. You're not understanding that according to his own client's statements, it could NOT be Natalee using the pass key - at least not at 1:26am.
What is the big deal about the other girls, for whatever reason, using her pass key? |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show. |
I will agree to disagree with you, Calliope.
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| shalby922
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:58 am |
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| Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | Exactly. So what is his point? He's doing nothing more than taking the focus off his client. He's trying to direct blame towards the MB kids or some "MYSTERIOUS" stranger using Natalee's pass key?
Pffft. Ridiculous. |
I disagree. I did not hear him say anything remotely like that. In fact, I would guess he is WONDERING if NH used the key? |
Yes, he could be implying this, that NH used the pass key...but as you can read in my posts, this is not possible if we are to believe Joran's and Deepak's stories. Why would Joe T. contradict his client's story? |
He's not. He's trying to bring out the possibility that Natalee went back to her hotel. If he can prove this, his client would be off the hook. |
Joran says he left C&C at closing time. Closing is at 1:00am. Joe T. says pass key was used at 1:26am. Neither Joran nor Deepak say they stopped at the HI after leaving from C&C's with Natalee in the car.
Simple. Could NOT have been Natalee at 1:26am. according to Joran and Deepak's stories. |
Ketek-
I think you're missing the point.
Joe T. never said that Natalee used her key at 1:26 am. He only said that her key was used at that time. Could she have given her key to one of her roommates at C&C's? Ruth maybe?
All I am trying to say is that Joe mentioned two things: a witness who saw Natalee back at the hotel at about 3:00 am and that her key was used at the three times mentioned previously. Now who would be the most logical people to help clarify the key times? Natalee's roommates. |
Nope. Don't think I missed Joe T.'s point. You're not understanding that according to his own client's statements, it could NOT be Natalee using the pass key - at least not at 1:26am.
What is the big deal about the other girls, for whatever reason, using her pass key? |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show. |
Boy, is that the truth!!!!
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| Ketek
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:59 am |
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| shalby922 wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | Exactly. So what is his point? He's doing nothing more than taking the focus off his client. He's trying to direct blame towards the MB kids or some "MYSTERIOUS" stranger using Natalee's pass key?
Pffft. Ridiculous. |
I disagree. I did not hear him say anything remotely like that. In fact, I would guess he is WONDERING if NH used the key? |
Yes, he could be implying this, that NH used the pass key...but as you can read in my posts, this is not possible if we are to believe Joran's and Deepak's stories. Why would Joe T. contradict his client's story? |
He's not. He's trying to bring out the possibility that Natalee went back to her hotel. If he can prove this, his client would be off the hook. |
Joran says he left C&C at closing time. Closing is at 1:00am. Joe T. says pass key was used at 1:26am. Neither Joran nor Deepak say they stopped at the HI after leaving from C&C's with Natalee in the car.
Simple. Could NOT have been Natalee at 1:26am. according to Joran and Deepak's stories. |
Ketek-
I think you're missing the point.
Joe T. never said that Natalee used her key at 1:26 am. He only said that her key was used at that time. Could she have given her key to one of her roommates at C&C's? Ruth maybe?
All I am trying to say is that Joe mentioned two things: a witness who saw Natalee back at the hotel at about 3:00 am and that her key was used at the three times mentioned previously. Now who would be the most logical people to help clarify the key times? Natalee's roommates. |
Nope. Don't think I missed Joe T.'s point. You're not understanding that according to his own client's statements, it could NOT be Natalee using the pass key - at least not at 1:26am.
What is the big deal about the other girls, for whatever reason, using her pass key? |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show. |
Boy, is that the truth!!!! |
Why must you incite? Please be civil.
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| RubaRiba
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:00 am |
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| pax wrote: | Rubariba, I agree with you regarding Joe's objectives.
By the way, I don't think there is any case. |
OMG  what have I've been following for the past 10 months 
do you think it's in the deep freeze - cold case file, not going to be solved,
I hold on to the theory that she's alive and don't want to be found, on her own behalf or because of all the hype. And then I flip to the idea of what could be the easiest place for a body to be at on an island that has been searched, then searched again, and again - - she's in the ocean (not sure if murdered, or on her own accord - need more facts)
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| reddog
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:00 am |
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| Calliope wrote: |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show. |
ty.
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| Calliope
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:01 am |
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| Quote: | | I will agree to disagree with you, Calliope. |
Agreed.
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| Ketek
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:02 am |
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| Calliope wrote: | | Quote: | | I will agree to disagree with you, Calliope. |
Agreed. |
Thank you  and good night, all!
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| Trixie
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:35 am |
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| shalby922 wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | Exactly. So what is his point? He's doing nothing more than taking the focus off his client. He's trying to direct blame towards the MB kids or some "MYSTERIOUS" stranger using Natalee's pass key?
Pffft. Ridiculous. |
I disagree. I did not hear him say anything remotely like that. In fact, I would guess he is WONDERING if NH used the key? |
Yes, he could be implying this, that NH used the pass key...but as you can read in my posts, this is not possible if we are to believe Joran's and Deepak's stories. Why would Joe T. contradict his client's story? |
He's not. He's trying to bring out the possibility that Natalee went back to her hotel. If he can prove this, his client would be off the hook. |
Joran says he left C&C at closing time. Closing is at 1:00am. Joe T. says pass key was used at 1:26am. Neither Joran nor Deepak say they stopped at the HI after leaving from C&C's with Natalee in the car.
Simple. Could NOT have been Natalee at 1:26am. according to Joran and Deepak's stories. |
Ketek-
I think you're missing the point.
Joe T. never said that Natalee used her key at 1:26 am. He only said that her key was used at that time. Could she have given her key to one of her roommates at C&C's? Ruth maybe?
All I am trying to say is that Joe mentioned two things: a witness who saw Natalee back at the hotel at about 3:00 am and that her key was used at the three times mentioned previously. Now who would be the most logical people to help clarify the key times? Natalee's roommates. |
Nope. Don't think I missed Joe T.'s point. You're not understanding that according to his own client's statements, it could NOT be Natalee using the pass key - at least not at 1:26am.
What is the big deal about the other girls, for whatever reason, using her pass key? |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show. |
Boy, is that the truth!!!! |
Ketek-
Obviously, you haven't been to Aruba. Natalee's room was next to Moomba's which is the Marriott Beach which is EXACTLY where Joran and the Kalpoe brothers say Joran and Natalee got out of the car. You damn well can leave Carlos and Charles and drive over to the lot behind Moomba's, walk from the parking lot around to the Holiday Inn builiding Natalee was staying in. They left CnC's at approximately 1:00 and could easily arrive at the Marriott beach and then to Natalee's room by 1:26pm.
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| shalby922
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:38 am |
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| Trixie wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | Calliope wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | | shalby922 wrote: | | Ketek wrote: | Exactly. So what is his point? He's doing nothing more than taking the focus off his client. He's trying to direct blame towards the MB kids or some "MYSTERIOUS" stranger using Natalee's pass key?
Pffft. Ridiculous. |
I disagree. I did not hear him say anything remotely like that. In fact, I would guess he is WONDERING if NH used the key? |
Yes, he could be implying this, that NH used the pass key...but as you can read in my posts, this is not possible if we are to believe Joran's and Deepak's stories. Why would Joe T. contradict his client's story? |
He's not. He's trying to bring out the possibility that Natalee went back to her hotel. If he can prove this, his client would be off the hook. |
Joran says he left C&C at closing time. Closing is at 1:00am. Joe T. says pass key was used at 1:26am. Neither Joran nor Deepak say they stopped at the HI after leaving from C&C's with Natalee in the car.
Simple. Could NOT have been Natalee at 1:26am. according to Joran and Deepak's stories. |
Ketek-
I think you're missing the point.
Joe T. never said that Natalee used her key at 1:26 am. He only said that her key was used at that time. Could she have given her key to one of her roommates at C&C's? Ruth maybe?
All I am trying to say is that Joe mentioned two things: a witness who saw Natalee back at the hotel at about 3:00 am and that her key was used at the three times mentioned previously. Now who would be the most logical people to help clarify the key times? Natalee's roommates. |
Nope. Don't think I missed Joe T.'s point. You're not understanding that according to his own client's statements, it could NOT be Natalee using the pass key - at least not at 1:26am.
What is the big deal about the other girls, for whatever reason, using her pass key? |
Ketek-
I think you need to reread the transcript or rewatch the show. |
Boy, is that the truth!!!! |
Ketek-
Obviously, you haven't been to Aruba. Natalee's room was next to Moomba's which is the Marriott Beach which is EXACTLY where Joran and the Kalpoe brothers say Joran and Natalee got out of the car. You damn well can leave Carlos and Charles and drive over to the lot behind Moomba's, walk from the parking lot around to the Holiday Inn builiding Natalee was staying in. They left CnC's at approximately 1:00 and could easily arrive at the Marriott beach and then to Natalee's room by 1:26pm. |
Absolutely right, Trixie.
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| Big Ben
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:38 am |
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Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach.
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| reddog
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:39 am |
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| Big Ben wrote: | Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach. |
just so.
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| just_lurking
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:45 am |
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Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach.
just so.
But why? Can you lay out a scenario? Seems he would recognize her by her clothes in the photos if nothing else.
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| reddog
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:50 am |
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| just_lurking wrote: | | reddog wrote: | | Big Ben wrote: | Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach. |
just so. |
But why? Can you lay out a scenario? Seems he would recognize her by her clothes in the photos if nothing else. |
just fixing your quotes................
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| Trixie
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:02 am |
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| Big Ben wrote: | Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach. |
Yeppers, Lucky Charm Ruthie........
She was the one who lost $360. Her daddy was going to be mad, so she asked Joran to help her win it back. He won $100 or so back and they stopped. She called him her "Lucky Charm." She had his cell phone number. They talked about Carlos and Charlies on Sunday nites.
When the Bama posse shows up in the wee hours yelling for Joran to bring them the girl, Joran thinks they are talking about the Lucky Charm girl. He relays the story to Jug of how he won the money back for her. Jug shows him Natalee's photo. Joran shakes his head. Jug starts shouting that he has seen the casino videos. He knows that Joran was there.
Very confusing. If he was with Ruth, not Natalee why wouldn't that have come out? Doesn't make sense. Then again, that first reaction to where is she, the girl you were with, why is the one he thinks they are talking about Ruth? 
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| reddog
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:04 am |
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| Trixie wrote: | | Big Ben wrote: | Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach. |
Yeppers, Lucky Charm Ruthie........
She was the one who lost $360. Her daddy was going to be mad, so she asked Joran to help her win it back. He won $100 or so back and they stopped. She called him her "Lucky Charm." She had his cell phone number. They talked about Carlos and Charlies on Sunday nites.
When the Bama posse shows up in the wee hours yelling for Joran to bring them the girl, Joran thinks they are talking about the Lucky Charm girl. He relays the story to Jug of how he won the money back for her. Jug shows him Natalee's photo. Joran shakes his head. Jug starts shouting that he has seen the casino videos. He knows that Joran was there.
Very confusing. If he was with Ruth, not Natalee why wouldn't that have come out? Doesn't make sense. Then again, that first reaction to where is she, the girl you were with, why is the one he thinks they are talking about Ruth? |
why indeed...............
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| Calli
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:29 am |
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Wait, are you all saying now that Joran was lying in his interviews and that he either went with Nat to her room at 1.26 (he never told us that) or he was with another girl on the beach and Nat was at the hotel all the time (he always said that he was with Nat so...)?
Cause if thats what you are saying than I must say the imagination got the best of you.
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| Flip
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:25 am |
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We don't even know if the 3 or 4 different card keys were individually coded, they may have been, but we don't know for sure. If not then it could have been anybody entering the room at those times. The MB kids that were at the pool needed to make a sanitary stop as well, or do you guys think the pool is perfect for that?
If they are individually coded it still could have been anybody entering the room at the 3:30 something times except for Joran and perhaps Deepak. Was this card turned in at anytime ?
So, yes that's what Joe T. is doing he is damaging the preponderance of evidence in the civil suit and establishing a reasonable doubt in the criminal case.
Just a remark about where Joran claims he and Natalee were dropped off by the Kalpoes. He says (Greta interview) they were dropped off at the most northern side of the Marriott complex, which is a 5 minute walk to the HI. AFAIAC this rules out the bathroom stop at 1:26.
About mistaken identitiy. I've always wondered how Joran can say that he later learned, the girl he won some money back for in the casino, was called Kathleen (or maybe Catherine), while the rest of the 'world' knows it was Ruth McVay?
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| miki
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:28 am |
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Maybe Natalee went to her room at 1:26 to check if the room was available, maybe to have sex with Joran? If it was, she would let Joran in through the glass doors at the beach. However, it appeared that Ruth was asleep, so she went back to Joran.
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| lushus
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:35 am |
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Maybe the girls in Natalee's room, miixed up their key cards ..
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| Calli
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:37 am |
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| lushus wrote: | | Maybe the girls in Natalee's room, miixed up their key cards .. |
Yeah, Im with you on that one. I believe people see too much into this.
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| CancunMole
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:46 am |
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| Big Ben wrote: | Or, Joran could have been with an different blonde Brookie and never with Natalee at all.
And, Natalee was using her hotel key to come and go from her room, while some other girl was on the beach. |
Big Ben: In the Photo Album No Discussion thread, http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=440, is it known if the blonde in #17 was on the trip?
IMO, she possibly could be confused with NH comparing #17 with #3.
The only thing that bothers me with the different blonde theory is that the "stop to let her get out of the car" seems to be confirmed by J2K and someone from MB. Unless this MB person and the girl in the car both knew NH had other plans and were covering for her????
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| cassidy
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:46 am |
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| Calli wrote: | | lushus wrote: | | Maybe the girls in Natalee's room, miixed up their key cards .. |
Yeah, Im with you on that one. I believe people see too much into this. |
And maybe they have a way of identifying the 1 card that was not returned? We don't know how many key cards were issued for that particular room.
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| CancunMole
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:10 am |
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| Trixie wrote: |
Ketek-
Obviously, you haven't been to Aruba. Natalee's room was next to Moomba's which is the Marriott Beach which is EXACTLY where Joran and the Kalpoe brothers say Joran and Natalee got out of the car. You damn well can leave Carlos and Charles and drive over to the lot behind Moomba's, walk from the parking lot around to the Holiday Inn builiding Natalee was staying in. They left CnC's at approximately 1:00 and could easily arrive at the Marriott beach and then to Natalee's room by 1:26pm. |
At first, I too thought they had gotten out of the car by Moomba's but according to the Greta interview, they got out on the Fisherman Huts' side of the Marriott complex.
| Quote: | VAN SUSTEREN: So where did you park?
VAN DER SLOOT: If you drive by right by the last Marriott Hotel so we took a left and you can drive right to the end of the road there and we stopped there, so you're basically still at the hotel and that's where — where we got out of the car and I told Deepak that "I'll call you later to pick me up" and he said "OK," and he left and we walked on the beach.
And, I mean there were people there. There were couples there on the beach as well. I mean we walked by other couples. It's not — that beach is — it's a very busy beach. There's a lot of people there even at nighttime.
VAN SUSTEREN: On the beach you weren't directly in front of the Marriott, you were a little bit north of the Marriott is that right, you call it the Marriott beach but you weren't directly in front of the hotel?
VAN DER SLOOT: At that point, we were basically almost directly in front of the Marriott Hotel.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you cut through the hotel to the beach?
VAN DER SLOOT: No, no. You didn't really cut because you're right at the — the right side of the Marriott Hotel, all the way at the right. She didn't really cut through — through the hotel but you were walking on the hotel property where there's beach chairs and all that stuff. |
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,186581,00.html
edit to add Trixie's photo link on the other thread that shows it all. Thanks Trixie!!
http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=475&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=125
Last edited by CancunMole on Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1900
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| refugee_lurker
Posted:
Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:08 am |
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| reddog wrote: | Lazlo wrote:
"It is also very odd that some would leave the room in the middle of the night for 14 minutes, for what reason?"
'cause whoever it was went in , left, realized they forgot something and went back for it?
or went to get some ice or something and came back? |
14 miinutes is a long time to get ice. Something else was going on here.
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Posts: 936
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