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BhamMom
 Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:08 pm |
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| HannieC wrote: | | Good post BhamMom! |
Thank you Hannie. I'm just very sensitive today.
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| wvgirl
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:16 pm |
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| BhamMom wrote: | I have never seen the letter posted before now and the only thing I have "heard" about the letter was there were implications against Jug. When I read the letter I immediately think it is a hoax but then my mind starts working and I'm bothered with some things.
1. Early on when the letter was first announced it was told others had been sent including one to Beth. In all of Beth's rants I've never heard her state she received a copy of this letter then again Beth being Beth, has not gone off on this letter accusing anyone of wrong doing. To me, that would be Beth. Why hasn't she? Is it because she did get a copy and possibly believes there may be some truth to it?
2. Remember that shortly after this letter was disclosed to the public in the fall, Jug "disappeared". It seems he quietly went into hiding. Why? Was it because they knew the allegations were true?
3. Like Heli I had read that "someone", possibly Arlene had stated there was not any of Natalee's DNA on the letter, it only had Paul's fingerprints. That can not be true. Too many people handle a letter to only have the fingerprints of one. Possibly only Paul's fingerprints were identified. How would they know if Natalee's fingerprints were on the letter? Don't you have to be "fingerprinted" in order to have fingerprints on file? When would she have been fingerprinted? Is the only fingerprint date available in a data base if you are criminal or work for and intelligence agency?
4. If it was conclusive that the DNA of Natalee Holloway was NOT on the letter, wouldn't there be articles published. If it was determined the DNA was not present it had to be a public statement. Why hasn't this been published in the news? I have seen it mentioned but never backed with an article, publication or public statement by "anyone" to verify this.
5. How did Scared Monkeys get a copy of the letter and envelope if John Kelly has never received any documentation? Beth stated she had documents in her possession regarding the truth but this was stated in July, I believe. This letter is dated in August. It could not be one of the documents that Beth has discussed.
6. How many cases do you read about in the U.S. and other countires that are highly publicized when they have evidence and the evidence doesn't lead to a suspect, it becomes public? I'm sure I've seen it many times.
7. Bachus was surprised with some things in his meeting and stated it was things the family was aware of. What were those things and why did he insist the MB kids cooperate with FBI?
The letter is almost laughable but then when I think about all the "strange things", it is almost possible it could be true. Did Joran identify the clothes that Natalee was wearing? I know the "panties" were described exactly per Beth but were the skirt and top identified by Joran? It would have been so easy for it to have been another girl with him. Remember the confusion with "Kathleen?" Joran was in a bar with "Natalee" and you know how dark bars are. They left when it was dark outside, went to a car and rode in the "dark" and then went to the beach. Again, it was dark and Joran left her there. Could it have been another blonde posing as Natalee? Could that not be possible and Natalee did leave? |
When I first read this I had the preconcieved notion that it was nothing more than more monkey shit. But I remember the letter (to PVDS) being mentioned earlier. Beth blew it off as being irrelevent. I hadn't heard that she had received a letter also. I've often thought that perhaps joran was not ever really w/Natalee after CnC, but usually go back to IF she ran, he was friends w/who she went with and stayed as long as he could waiting on her escort out of Aruba. 
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| Heli
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:23 pm |
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wvgirl
I might entertain these rather "out there" ideas but when
I think that Joran spent 3 months in jail and had to live through
gruelling interrogations, it becomes impossible for me to
believe that he'd suffer through that as well as make his family
suffer through it, the island suffer through this and generally
endure 15 months of total hell (so far)
Nobody would suffer through this kind of hell to protect one
18 year old girl who wanted to run away EXCEPT perhaps if
the consequences of revealing the truth were even worse than
what was already happening to them.
I'm not inclined to go in this direction at all .
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Transcription Goddess
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| Siddalee
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:34 pm |
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If Natalee is in hiding somewhere, I do not think J2K had anything to do with it. I am wondering, tho, if the letter had been written by one of Natalee's friends who desparately wanted to shed some light on a deep dark secret Natalee may have had and the letter was to "out" Jug. When the letter came out everyone pointed fingers at many different people - which was pretty dumb - but what about her friends? They would be the most likely writers, I think, and it would be easy enough for them to have a letter mailed from Arkansas.
And yes, Jug did quietly fade away after the letter came out....
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Ya-Ya!
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:34 pm |
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| Heli wrote: | wvgirl
I might entertain these rather "out there" ideas but when
I think that Joran spent 3 months in jail and had to live through
gruelling interrogations, it becomes impossible for me to
believe that he'd suffer through that as well as make his family
suffer through it, the island suffer through this and generally
endure 15 months of total hell (so far)
Nobody would suffer through this kind of hell to protect one
18 year old girl who wanted to run away EXCEPT perhaps if
the consequences of revealing the truth were even worse than
what was already happening to them.
I'm not inclined to go in this direction at all . |
I don't think Joran did anything to "protect" Natalee but I also don't think he did anything to harm her. I'm still not 100% convinced that Joran was truly with Natalee. If it was another blonde "posing" as Natalee, Joran would not be the protector, the blonde would be.
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| Heli
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:41 pm |
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| BhamMom wrote: | | Heli wrote: | wvgirl
I might entertain these rather "out there" ideas but when
I think that Joran spent 3 months in jail and had to live through
gruelling interrogations, it becomes impossible for me to
believe that he'd suffer through that as well as make his family
suffer through it, the island suffer through this and generally
endure 15 months of total hell (so far)
Nobody would suffer through this kind of hell to protect one
18 year old girl who wanted to run away EXCEPT perhaps if
the consequences of revealing the truth were even worse than
what was already happening to them.
I'm not inclined to go in this direction at all . |
I don't think Joran did anything to "protect" Natalee but I also don't think he did anything to harm her. I'm still not 100% convinced that Joran was truly with Natalee. If it was another blonde "posing" as Natalee, Joran would not be the protector, the blonde would be. |
That's just too whacked for me; it's too much like some
storyline in a movie. At some point early on, if Joran had
been with a girl other than Natalee, he would have clued in.
Joran is not a dimwit.
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Transcription Goddess
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Location: Puffed Up DimWit
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:55 pm |
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Heli,
I think Joran is very intelligent, probably more intelligent than Natalee. I just remember from my "younger days" going to bars, meeting someone and would not necessarily know them if I saw them the next day. Someone that I had met before and been around, I probably would know but someone that I spent less than 2 or 3 hours, I might not. I can see me confusing two men of similar looks and build the next day if I the time spent with them was short and if it was mostly spent in physical contact.  I think I would be more inclined to recognize their voice than them and Joran didn't have that opportunity.
I don't personally know Joran so I cannot judge him. I do know that he is very intelligent and I also know from experience that highly intelligent people do not always have the ability to be very logical. My older son is intelligent but almost "zero" common sense. There are people that he will meet and not "recognize" the same person a short time later. I still wonder about him being shown a picture of Natalee and saying he did not recognize her. Beth had a picture the night they went to their house. Was that a lie or did he truly not know? That has always bothered me.
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| sarge
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:17 pm |
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Me too.
That's just too whacked for me; it's too much like some
storyline in a movie. At some point early on, if Joran had
been with a girl other than Natalee, he would have clued in.
Joran is not a dimwit.
I don't want to make all those quote stacks but I was thinking tonight about the Lake house movie that I just saw a couple of weeks ago. This whole scenario reminds me of that movie. This whole letter from David and Natalee is so phony. The letter was never printed before yesterday but was hinted about many times. Obviously, the thing was leaked months ago.
Back on a Greta (On the Record) shown in February, Larry Garrison was on and made some bizarre comment about Julia R writing a novel about Natalee being pregnant with Jug's baby.
It is hard to believe that with all the US attorneys and other PI's being friends that this thing will ever be solved. I just wonder what will be next.
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| Heli
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:12 pm |
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| BhamMom wrote: | Heli,
I think Joran is very intelligent, probably more intelligent than Natalee. I just remember from my "younger days" going to bars, meeting someone and would not necessarily know them if I saw them the next day. Someone that I had met before and been around, I probably would know but someone that I spent less than 2 or 3 hours, I might not. I can see me confusing two men of similar looks and build the next day if I the time spent with them was short and if it was mostly spent in physical contact. I think I would be more inclined to recognize their voice than them and Joran didn't have that opportunity.
I don't personally know Joran so I cannot judge him. I do know that he is very intelligent and I also know from experience that highly intelligent people do not always have the ability to be very logical. My older son is intelligent but almost "zero" common sense. There are people that he will meet and not "recognize" the same person a short time later. I still wonder about him being shown a picture of Natalee and saying he did not recognize her. Beth had a picture the night they went to their house. Was that a lie or did he truly not know? That has always bothered me. |
Joran was with a live girl who was on vacation. She probably
looked a whole lot different than any picture that Beth showed
him at 03:00 on May 31, 2005. 18 year old boy hooks up with
blond tourist in a bar, both have been drinking, leave and hit
the backseat of a car and drive around, spend time on a dark
beach.
I don't have any trouble believing that shown a picture of Natalee,
probably a grad picture he'd have a hard time recognizing her as
the girl he sucked booze off of and played with in the backseat
of Deepak's car.
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Transcription Goddess
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 23410
Location: Puffed Up DimWit
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| BhamMom
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:02 pm |
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This whole case has been whacked up from the get-go. Look at the reaction of Beth from the beginning. Visiting Joran's family the night they landed in Aruba? It all seems like it came from a movie to me. 
That is why I believe anything could be possible. Heck, it may have been a martian abduction, who knows? 
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| Hoosiergal
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:23 pm |
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This letter has been gnawing at me since it was posted. A couple of points to ponder----
Keep in mind that most lies have an element of truth in them. What if the letter was a hoax--- very possible, but perhaps it was based on something that was actually sent? We heard about the letter months ago, but heard little regarding it afterward (although it very well could have been mentioned). If I recall correctly, someone on this board from Aruba actually said they knew a person who SAW the letter, although didn't get a chance to read it firsthand, and reiterated what was in the letter. With that in mind, it very well could have been possible for a scenario such as described, with any discrepancies having some sort of reasonable explanation. Bottom line, I wouldn't throw it completely out the window yet. It's out there for a reason, and someone put it there for a reason.
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| statinmyopinion2
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:33 pm |
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Why did Jugs refuse a DNA sample taken from him?
Why when he was being questioned did he go all ballistic and threw over chairs?
Was Karin asking him straight up questions regarding this letter? Why is it after being questioned by Karin, and him going ballistic that he returned to the USA, and NEVER went back to Aruba? This was about the first or second week of August...
Why was it that AFTER this letter was kind of leaked to the media...that there was a letter sent to Paulus, that Jugs clammed up and was never again shown on TV?
Was he AFRAID that ONE of the Talking heads, would bring this up?
There may be some "truth" to this letter.............I wouldnt just state......it was a hoax. Maybe someone KNEW something and wanted it to get out there, FOR Natalee??
Its not like WE don't HEAR about these things everday going on in the world around us. Step fathers sexually abusing their step daughters.....
Who knows. I can't say for certainty that what is in this letter is TRUE, and I can't say certainty it isn't.
I am not stating it as truth. I am just wondering IF someone KNEW and that could POSSIBLY be one reason why Natalee would want to run away..or has TRIED to runaway in the past.
Where there is "smoke" theres fire....
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HMI, we are still watching you!
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 2308
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| refugee_lurker
Posted:
Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:28 am |
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| chillin wrote: | | Lazlo wrote: | A quote from the letter:
| Quote: | "We sent a letter to Mrs. Holloway before leaving to explain what we were doing and why.
We believe that she must have received the letter shortly before Natalee was reported as missing" |
Natalee went missing on Sunday-night/Monday-morning, if Beth had received the letter prior to Natalee's disappearance, she must have received this alleged letter the latest on Saturday May 28.
If these people had planned this escape so carefully would they really take any risk to have Beth informed béfore they had the chance to work out this carefully planned run-away?
"we believe that she must have received the letter shortly before etc"
So, they just send the letter, not worried that Beth would find out what was about to happen béfore they had the chance to take of?
Please what a BS. |
Am I reading this wrong or are they referring to Beth as Mrs. Holloway? She's Mrs. Twitty not Holloway. |
I didn't read Dave and Larry's book, but didn't Larry Garrison refer to Beth as Mrs Holloway in the book?
I think he is the most likely suspect for setting Joran up in NYC, although it could have been someone from ABC. Didn't he try to pin it on Julia, which was silly? I guess that is when I thought it was most likely Larry. He was too quick to try and blame someone else. Someone alerted Natalee's family as to when Joran would be coming to NYC. Maybe the same person sent this letter.
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| refugee_lurker
Posted:
Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:02 am |
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| rosalia2006 wrote: | And it's obvious that ALE, the NFI and the FBI have long
ago discounted this fairy tale as nothing more than the
sick contribution of a zealot.
Don't be so sure this isnt real. We havent heard from the NFI OFFICIALLY about the Skeeters hard drive either. Furthermore, look at the photo of Natalee that Dompig showed . The one from the bar the last night. look closely. The girl has a turned up nose. The alleged tape of Natalee returning to the HI, her mother says it isnt she, yet the same clothes, per Julia.
Joran didnt KNOW who Natalee was when Beth showed him her photo. AND FINALLY, the 'jug getting Natalee pregnant" story was first said on TV in late winter by Garrison. This letter was penned in August and post marked august 30? Or that is what i looks like on the envelope. Either way, this is the second time we have heard about the father of Natalee's baby being jug, IF there was a baby. |
I don't believe the letter is real. It could be one of her friends though.
But I noticed the same thing you did in the dance photo of Natalee. Her nose seemed to be a "turned up" nose, as if she already had a nose operation.
In the photo from the beach, supposedly taken the same night and the one of Natalee and Ruth in the bar, her nose looks like it always did.
Your comment above reminded me of my original thoughts when I first saw that photo of Natalee dancing that night.
Did anyone else think her nose looked different?
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| Siddalee
Posted:
Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:12 am |
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| refugee_lurker wrote: | | chillin wrote: | | Lazlo wrote: | A quote from the letter:
| Quote: | "We sent a letter to Mrs. Holloway before leaving to explain what we were doing and why.
We believe that she must have received the letter shortly before Natalee was reported as missing" |
Natalee went missing on Sunday-night/Monday-morning, if Beth had received the letter prior to Natalee's disappearance, she must have received this alleged letter the latest on Saturday May 28.
If these people had planned this escape so carefully would they really take any risk to have Beth informed béfore they had the chance to work out this carefully planned run-away?
"we believe that she must have received the letter shortly before etc"
So, they just send the letter, not worried that Beth would find out what was about to happen béfore they had the chance to take of?
Please what a BS. |
Am I reading this wrong or are they referring to Beth as Mrs. Holloway? She's Mrs. Twitty not Holloway. |
I didn't read Dave and Larry's book, but didn't Larry Garrison refer to Beth as Mrs Holloway in the book?
I think he is the most likely suspect for setting Joran up in NYC, although it could have been someone from ABC. Didn't he try to pin it on Julia, which was silly? I guess that is when I thought it was most likely Larry. He was too quick to try and blame someone else. Someone alerted Natalee's family as to when Joran would be coming to NYC. Maybe the same person sent this letter. |
Yes, Garrison tried to blame it on Julia - he thinks she is the reason Joran wouldn't sign a book deal with him which really ticked Garrison off. Garrison did set up Joran in NYC - why would he think Joran would sign a book deal with him? He made a bundle from ABC, selling them research. He's scared Julia is going to write a book and he knows darned well if she did, she would sell a lot more books than his skewed novels.
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Ya-Ya!
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| justamom
Posted:
Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:14 am |
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| Heli wrote: | | BhamMom wrote: | Heli,
I think Joran is very intelligent, probably more intelligent than Natalee. I just remember from my "younger days" going to bars, meeting someone and would not necessarily know them if I saw them the next day. Someone that I had met before and been around, I probably would know but someone that I spent less than 2 or 3 hours, I might not. I can see me confusing two men of similar looks and build the next day if I the time spent with them was short and if it was mostly spent in physical contact. I think I would be more inclined to recognize their voice than them and Joran didn't have that opportunity.
I don't personally know Joran so I cannot judge him. I do know that he is very intelligent and I also know from experience that highly intelligent people do not always have the ability to be very logical. My older son is intelligent but almost "zero" common sense. There are people that he will meet and not "recognize" the same person a short time later. I still wonder about him being shown a picture of Natalee and saying he did not recognize her. Beth had a picture the night they went to their house. Was that a lie or did he truly not know? That has always bothered me. |
Joran was with a live girl who was on vacation. She probably
looked a whole lot different than any picture that Beth showed
him at 03:00 on May 31, 2005. 18 year old boy hooks up with
blond tourist in a bar, both have been drinking, leave and hit
the backseat of a car and drive around, spend time on a dark
beach.
I don't have any trouble believing that shown a picture of Natalee,
probably a grad picture he'd have a hard time recognizing her as
the girl he sucked booze off of and played with in the backseat
of Deepak's car. |
Not just alive girl, but one who had probably been sweating from dancing, dirty and had been drinking. I dont know about anyone else, but I dont look like my professional portraits when Ive been doing those things.
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justaMILF
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 6604
Location: in a cute farmhouse
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| lushus
Posted:
Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:18 am |
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| refugee_lurker wrote: | | rosalia2006 wrote: | And it's obvious that ALE, the NFI and the FBI have long
ago discounted this fairy tale as nothing more than the
sick contribution of a zealot.
Don't be so sure this isnt real. We havent heard from the NFI OFFICIALLY about the Skeeters hard drive either. Furthermore, look at the photo of Natalee that Dompig showed . The one from the bar the last night. look closely. The girl has a turned up nose. The alleged tape of Natalee returning to the HI, her mother says it isnt she, yet the same clothes, per Julia.
Joran didnt KNOW who Natalee was when Beth showed him her photo. AND FINALLY, the 'jug getting Natalee pregnant" story was first said on TV in late winter by Garrison. This letter was penned in August and post marked august 30? Or that is what i looks like on the envelope. Either way, this is the second time we have heard about the father of Natalee's baby being jug, IF there was a baby. |
I don't believe the letter is real. It could be one of her friends though.
But I noticed the same thing you did in the dance photo of Natalee. Her nose seemed to be a "turned up" nose, as if she already had a nose operation.
In the photo from the beach, supposedly taken the same night and the one of Natalee and Ruth in the bar, her nose looks like it always did.
Your comment above reminded me of my original thoughts when I first saw that photo of Natalee dancing that night.
Did anyone else think her nose looked different? |
I thought Natalee looked SMASHED in that photo!
She had a weird drunken smile on her face ..
She looked horrible, all sweaty and bleary eyed!
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Oo(^.^)y-~~ smokin\'
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| WangChung
Posted:
Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:58 am |
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| lushus wrote: |
I thought Natalee looked SMASHED in that photo!
She had a weird drunken smile on her face ..
She looked horrible, all sweaty and bleary eyed! |
Like mother, like daughter. 
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Everybody Have Fun Tonight
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| monkeybitch
Posted:
Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:49 pm |
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HOW PATHETIC YOU MUST BE
TO SPEAK AGAINST THE DEAD
THAT LETTER IS THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF BULLSHIT
I HAVE EVER SEEN
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**Deactivated**
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 94
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| DiamondDot
Posted:
Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:51 pm |
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| monkeybitch wrote: | HOW PATHETIC YOU MUST BE
TO SPEAK AGAINST THE DEAD
THAT LETTER IS THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF BULLSHIT
I HAVE EVER SEEN |
I don't believe Natalee is dead.
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Double D
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Surfin' the Rhythms of the Universe
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| Fiery
Posted:
Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:52 pm |
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quote="silverman57111"]
 [/quote]
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Who died and made YOU Darth Vader?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Fiery
Posted:
Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:09 pm |
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Who died and made YOU Darth Vader?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 8848
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| Fiery
Posted:
Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:09 pm |
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Who died and made YOU Darth Vader?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 8848
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| Fiery
Posted:
Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:46 pm |
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| elgatonegro wrote: | | JD wrote: | | elgatonegro wrote: | rika looks younger to me but maybe she is reall 16 here are some examples of people who look a lot younger than they are
they both lllook like theyre14
one of them looks 14 again and one looks like 25
these all look like theyrein 7th grade
just for kicks  she looks 13 too
rikalooks like shes 14 or so to me but then again all those people were what 17 at least most 18? shes proabbly really 16
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The girl standing with rika in the bottom pic, Liv, just celebrated her 13th birthday. |
yeah but look at the rest of those kids they look older |
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Who died and made YOU Darth Vader?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Fiery
Posted:
Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:16 am |
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Who died and made YOU Darth Vader?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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