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MyContentions
 Posted:
Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:40 am |
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INeedToKnow,
I think a part of the problem is your words, "Jesus Christ is OUR Lord and Savior".
No, Jesus is YOUR Lord and Savior.
You see, you lose me when you begin to include me in your personal beliefs. As has been pointed out, it is my right to not believe that the road to eternal salvation is submission to New Testament. '
I will discuss bible prophecy with you all day long, particularly in relationship to history wherein several fundamentalist Christian organizations proclaimed the second coming, or the end of the world, and the date came and went.
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:50 am |
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"There is only one simple question you should ask yourself - and I urge you and everyone to ask yourself this question. Is there anything I, as a fallable, sinful and unclean human being can do to enter the holy and pure presence of God? IF what is written in the Bible is true it says that THE ONLY way to heaven and eternal life is through belief and acceptance that Jesus IS the Christ and that He came to this world to save us from ourselves and from our sins. "
Also, INeedToKnow,
The above quote is from one of your posts.
I do not believe I am a sinful and unclean human being.
You lose me, and a great many others, when you post things like that.
The bible was written, and edited, and revised, and re-written by mere mortals. God did not sit there with a word processor and write down the words.
And if every word in the Judeo-Christian bibles are true, why do Catholics pray to statues, light incense and engage in other pagan-based rituals? (Thou shalt have no other god before me). What is the purpose of placing flowers and candles at the base of a statue of the Blessed Mother? (No idol worship).
How can Christianity proclaim itself to be the only path to salvation and light when it's basically a new kid on the religious block?
What happened to the immortal souls of all of those that died before the death of Jesus? Are they just discounted?
How can a religion, that proclaims itself as "the way" have been behind the crusades (actually, the catalyst for much of the middle east crisis today), or the dark ages, or the inquisition?
This is the dialogue I am interested in.
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:21 pm |
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MyContentions: First, let me say that anything I write here is comes from my heart and it is in no way an attempt to "preach" or to make anybody feel bad in any way. I am just a regular, normal, every day guy who was saved from myself and from the sin that sepreated me from God, His love and His grace and mercy. It is my belief that the Bible is the true word of God, written by men, but God-inspired by and through the Holy Spirit. Men like Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Daniel, Job, David, Peter, John, Paul - men who not only wrote God inspired words, but also men who were witnesses of the great wonders, works, miracles and power of God and of Jesus.
You reference Catholics and how they worship and their crusades as a part of your argument for non-belief of Jesus as Lord and Savior - I am not Catholic - never was and personally do not agree with many of the things they do. What I can tell you is that many people can call themselves Christian - that does not mean they are truly doing or engaged in the things that Jesus taught us. Some want to complicate what really is a simple truth -we are all sinners (whether you want to believe you are or not). Sin is what seperated us from God in the first place when Adam and Eve were deceived by Satan - and we have been paying the price ever since. The history of the Bible starts with the writings of Moses - a man who stood in the presence of God and worked miracles through him. If you want to believe that Bible prophecy is all made up, it is again your right to do so, but you should do it only when you have given yourself a chance to truly understand the significance of your decision.
I was born a Jew, my father was a non-practicing, non-believing Catholic who converted to Judaism to marry my mother. I studied and had much exposure to the Bible as a child, but I always felt I was only getting half the story. As an adult, through life's many ups and downs, and after banging my head against many walls trying to do things on my own terms and by my own free will, I came to the realization that God, knowing what a powerful enemy we have in Satan, and also knowing how weak we can be in the flesh, sent us his Son, God made man, to walk among us, live beside us, understand our suffering, temptations and pain, and to finally make the ultimate sacrifice and die for us and our sins so that we who come to Him and accept Him, can have life eternal and have a true relationship with God.
God told Adam and Eve to eat of any tree in the garden, except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - but they chose to be deceived by the greatest deciever man has ever known (Saten), and by doing so, disaboyed God - original sin entered our lives. They ate of that forbidden fruit - and thousands of years later, through grace and mercy, God sent Jesus to be nailed to a tree (the cross), so that sin would no longer rule our lives and so that this tree (the cross) would now be the true "tree of life" and be our gateway into eternity.
What happened to those who died before Jesus? I do not have that answer, but I think much depended on how they kept the laws God gave them through Moses. That great thing is we no longer have to worry about laws because our great redeemer is Jesus.
I am also the least "religious" person you will ever meet. Man-made religions only works to seperate people from the love of God. Jesus was very approchable and also came to serve, not to be served. I belong to a fellowship of believers (church) that to me, is what true Christianity is all about. Maybe this will give you a much better idea of what I believe a true relationship with God should be. Do not let what men have done through the ages seperate you from the love God has for you and everybody else:
Calvary Chapel has been formed as a fellowship of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our supreme desire is to know Christ and be conformed to His image by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only to their overemphasis of the doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the body of Christ.
DOCTRINAL
1. We believe in what is termed "The Apostles' Creed" as embodying all the fundamental doctrines of orthodox evangelical Christianity.
2. We believe there is one living and true God, eternally existing in three persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, equal in power and glory; that this triune God created all, upholds all, and governs all.
3. We believe in God, the Father, an infinite, personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power, and love; that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men; that He hears and answers prayer; and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ.
4. We believe in Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, conceived by the Holy Spirit. We believe in His virgin birth, sinless life, miracles, and teachings; His substitutionary atoning death; bodily resurrection; ascension into heaven; perpetual intercession for His people; and personal, visible return to earth. We believe that He is one and the same as God. He was fully human and fully God.
5. We believe in the Holy Spirit, who came forth from the Father and Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment and to regenerate, sanctify, and empower in ministry all who believe in Christ. We believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer in Jesus Christ and that He is an abiding Helper, Teacher, and Guide. We believe that Jesus Christ baptizes the seeking believer with the Holy Spirit and power for service, either at the time of or subsequent to regeneration, which is a separate work from the indwelling Spirit for salvation. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit and in the exercise of all biblical gifts of the Spirit as reflected through the fruit of that same Spirit.
6. We believe that all the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God, fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts, and that they are the infallible rule of faith and practice.
7. We believe all people are by nature separated from God and responsible for their own sin, but that salvation, redemption, and forgiveness are freely offered to all by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. When a person repents of sin and accepts Jesus Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior, trusting Him to save, that person is immediately born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit, all of his/her sins are forgiven, and that person becomes a child of God, destined to spend eternity with the Lord.
8. We await the pre-tribulation rapture of the church, and we believe in the literal Second Coming of Christ with His saints to rule the earth, which will be personal and visible. This motivates us to holy living, heartfelt worship, committed service, diligent study of God's Word, regular fellowship, participation in adult baptism by immersion and Holy Communion.
9. We are neither Five-Point Calvinists, nor are we Arminians. We adhere firmly to the biblical teaching of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. We avoid any theological systems of belief that go beyond the written Word and thereby divide the body of Christ.
10. We do not believe in "positive confession" (the faith movement belief that God can be commanded to heal or work miracles according to man's will); human prophecy that supersedes the Scriptures; the incorporation of humanistic and secular psychology into biblical teaching; the overemphasis of spiritual gifts and experiential signs and wonders to the exclusion of biblical teaching; or that true Christians can be demon-possessed.
11. We believe in the universal Church, in the living spiritual body, of which Christ is the head and all regenerated persons are members.
12. We believe the Lord Jesus Christ committed two ordinances to the Church: 1) baptism, and 2) the Lord's Supper. We believe in baptism by immersion and communion, both of which are open to all believers in Jesus Christ.
13. We believe in the laying on of hands for the sending out of pastors and missionaries, and in conjunction with the anointing of oil by the elders for the healing of the sick.
PRACTICAL
14. We believe the only true basis of Christian fellowship is Christ's (agape) love, which is greater than differences we possess, and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.
15. We believe worship of God should be spiritual; therefore, we remain flexible and yielded to the leading of the Holy Spirit to direct our worship.
16. We believe worship of God should be inspirational; therefore, we give great place to music in our worship.
17. We believe worship of God should be intelligent; therefore, our services are designed with great emphasis upon the teaching of the Word of God that He might instruct us on how He should be worshiped. We seek to teach the Word of God in such a way that its message can be applied to the individual's life, leading that person to a greater maturity in Christ. We teach both expositionally and topically.
18. We believe worship of God should be fruitful; therefore, we look for His love in our lives as the supreme manifestation that we have been truly worshiping Him.
19. We believe that the church government should be simplistic rather than a complex bureaucracy, and we depend on the Holy Spirit to lead, rather than on fleshly promotion.
20. We believe that the Bible clearly delineates that spiritual gifts are for the edification of the body and that they are to be exercised in love. We believe that love is more important than the most spectacular gifts, and without love, all exercise of spiritual gifts is worthless. In our services, we focus on a personal relationship with God through worship, prayer, and the teaching of the Word of God. We do not practice speaking in tongues during worship or while a Bible study is in progress because we do not believe that the Holy Spirit would interrupt Himself. God is not the author of confusion. These gifts are encouraged in more intimate settings, e.g. afterglow services and small groups where their benefit can accomplish the purpose for which they have been given - the edification of the body of Christ.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:58 pm |
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Part of what separates our beliefs (besides Jesus being the Messiah) is the belief in satan.
That's not to say I do not believe in evil. I do believe there is evil in this world and in other realms. But insofar as satan being in a battle with God for our souls, no.
I do not believe that satan tempts mere mortals with greed or other sins. I do agree with you that human beings are tempted by such endeavors, but I do not believe that it is satan doing the tempting.
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| bamuda
Posted:
Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:51 pm |
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| MyContentions wrote: | Part of what separates our beliefs (besides Jesus being the Messiah) is the belief in satan.
That's not to say I do not believe in evil. I do believe there is evil in this world and in other realms. But insofar as satan being in a battle with God for our souls, no.
I do not believe that satan tempts mere mortals with greed or other sins. I do agree with you that human beings are tempted by such endeavors, but I do not believe that it is satan doing the tempting. |
Who or what or how come .... we are tempted?
What or who is behind the evil?
I do believe in satan.
You read that. 
The evil vs good thing.
Not picking MC, just wondering what is your take on the big picture.
I feel like I wrestle with devils everyday sometimes.
In real life and the ones in my head.
I imagine you have read the story of satan?
How beautiful he was?
How proud?
How persuasive he was ....
a third of heaven followed his lead without question?
His fall from heaven?
It made sense to me.
What would drive people to commit evil deeds?
I can understand some motives.
Rage and even revenge against mistreatment involving innocents.
Hunger and need.
Blind lust.
I'm talking horrible evil?
Where does that come from?
God?
I am interested, that's all.
Please don't take me the wrong way.
Peace.
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Resident Philosopher
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1157
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:10 am |
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I believe all human beings carry evil within them. It's not planted there by a superforce, nor is it tempted by another.
It's something that's either released or not released. Sometimes the release of evil from a person is a conscious decision. Sometimes it's as the result of a crossed-circuit in one's brain or one's emtional or psychological or psychiatric make-up.
Do I believe that beings can be possessed by an evil entity or demon-type? Yes I do.
I just don't believe there is some battle between satan and God for our souls.
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Joined: 15 May 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:32 am |
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| MyContentions wrote: | I believe all human beings carry evil within them. It's not planted there by a superforce, nor is it tempted by another.
It's something that's either released or not released. Sometimes the release of evil from a person is a conscious decision. Sometimes it's as the result of a crossed-circuit in one's brain or one's emtional or psychological or psychiatric make-up.
Do I believe that beings can be possessed by an evil entity or demon-type? Yes I do.
I just don't believe there is some battle between satan and God for our souls. |
After reading what you have written, and you not really telling us what you really believe - I can say that I respectfully agree to disagree with you and we can leave it at that. This in no way can affect any relationship you and I or I and anybody else can have. Your belief or lack thereof is a personal decision between you and God (or your higher power).
I do believe that one day, I don't know when, every eye will see the truth and it will all be revealed.
Another thing I would like to tell you is that Satan's ultimate goal is just what you have written, that people think he is just some fairy tale, that is exactly how he wants it so he can keep on wrecking havoc on this world. There is an useen spiritual battle going on and yes, human kind is smack dab in the middle of it.
Not just my opinion. Peace, love and mercy to you and to all.
Last edited by Need2Know on Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| amanda
Posted:
Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:13 am |
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My Contentions, I like what you write because it shows you have really thought about God and Satan. You are not alone in questioning the reality of what the Bible tells us. Many great, highly intelligent people in this world have doubted and questioned and tried to rationalize God.
I doubt they will ever arrive at the correct conclusion, though.
C.S. Lewis' books have helped so many people, probably because he was once an avowed Atheist. He chronicles his mental struggles in a lot of his books. One major point he made that struck home with my own doubts, is the inherent sense of right and wrong that appears prevalent in human beings. Lewis could not get around that FACT.
Lewis doubts that 'conscience' was a result of evolution.
I do agree with you that 'Christians' have hurt Jesus' reputation by showing a spirit and living lives that seem a far cry from what Jesus told us.
I know I cannot find Jesus in most churches. The closest I come to feeling His Presence, is when I am in places where I would expect to find Him the least. I believe this fact is what keeps foreign missionaries working in dangerous places all over the world. His Presence is so real then, and I have no doubt that He is real. But then, I walk back into my safe domain and attend my secure church, and I struggle to feel His Presence in my heart as vividly.
I believe His Spirit is alive, but It is hard to feel Him unless one is embroiled in actively living a life like His.
He doesn't dwell in a buiding, and no religion can adequately define Him.
When He was walking on earth, He didn't associate only with 'church people', He didn't eat and drink and party with the 'socially accepted', He didn't keep the Sabbath holy by religious standards, He didn't follow social protocol when dealing with women, He didn't strictly follow the Law of Moses when dealing with sin and sinners, He didn't even choose His band of men from a religiously acceptable group whose lives had proven their faith in God.
So why do we sit in church and expect to feel Jesus' Presence in our hearts? He told us to 'Go, and feed my sheep.' 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. And to the rich young ruler, who DID believe, He told him to go and sell all He had and follow Him.
There is a lot more to being a Christian than just saying, "I believe in Jesus."
I can only manage to live His life of sacrifice occasionally, but on those occasions He is as real to me as if He were human again.
And I need those occasions, because we ALL struggle with Faith. It is hard to just mindlessly believe such a fantastic story, for me, without those occasional Touches from an Unseen (nail-scarred) Hand.
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:29 am |
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Amanda,
I highly recommend you read "The Jesus Style" by Gayle Erwin. You will see Jesus the way all should see Him. It is required reading for many pastors and it sheds light on who Jesus really was. Gayle writes in a humerous style that all can enjoy.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:18 am |
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INeedToKnow,
What about my post did you determine was not telling you what I really believe?
[/u]
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** Banned **
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:48 am |
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I'll add to my above post.
I was born a Jew. I am a practicing Wiccan, or what you would call a kitchen witch in that I am not strictly of the Gardnerian beliefs and not a member of an organized coven, although I do celebrate certain wiccan holidays with a circle of like-minded witches. There is a dash of hoo doo thrown in to my beliefs as well as Native American spirituality.
I am not a "satanist".
I believe there is a God, and see him more as a heavenly father/creator. I believe just as much in the power of the heavenly mother (the earth). I call upon my ancestors and both the gods and goddesses of creation to assist me with strength to put forth my own inner powers.
I use a broom to symbollically cleanse an area before I cast a circle. I burn incense and believe that sacred sage is a cleanser.
I believe in doing no harm to others, but I also believe in the absolute right of self defense.
I acknowledge evil within this world and the world we cannot see but I do not fear evil. I respect it's power and stay far away from it.
I do not believe there is a God vs. Satan war. Satan was born with the avent of Christianity.
I believe in ghosts, spirit guides, tarot and other things that go bump in the night.
I do NOT deal with ouji boards. I believe they are a conduit to things that I cannot handle.
I do not wear black every day. I do not have multiple piercings or tattoos. I do not fly a broom to my very "white collar" job.
I do not do ritual bloodletting. I do not cast "love spells" or place curses. I respect and revere animals but do not deny that I am a carnivore.
Sometimes I see dead people, but usually I just feel their presence.
Halloween is my favorite holiday.
I respect the religion to which I was born and acknowledge it freely. I respect your religion although I find more unanswered questions than answers each time I ask questions. Christianity makes little sense to me in so many ways, in about the same way which you could never imagine yourself being a Witch.
And I truly mean it when I say, blessed be. May you be blessed with the strength of your belief and go forward in light and love.
Oh and one final thing...
I haven't turned anyone into a toad in a really long time! 
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** Banned **
Joined: 15 May 2006
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| Need2Know
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:07 am |
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| MyContentions wrote: | I'll add to my above post.
[b]And I truly mean it when I say, blessed be. May you be blessed with the strength of your belief and go forward in light and love.
Oh and one final thing...
I haven't turned anyone into a toad in a really long time!
[/b] |
I pray the same for you.
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N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:43 pm |
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Thank you, I Need To Know!
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| pax
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:25 pm |
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Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Wish You Were Here
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| Lexy
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:01 pm |
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| bamuda wrote: | Thank you Amanda!
There are many fine posts in this thread, I think you agree.
I am way behind.
I read Lexy's words several days ago
and have wanted to tell her
how much I enjoyed her kind and thoughtful post.
I have been stymied lately, mental block of some sort.
N2K's posts are beautiful!
I was touched by your words also Amanda
and have wanted to tell you so.
These threads tend to lend themselves to deeper thoughts about life,
I think it is because it is so quiet in here.
I don't like preachy people, I have been surrounded by them all my life.
I know how it is to be on the receiving end.
All you want to do is run and sometimes it makes you wanta cuss.
Mostly you want to prove them wrong it seems.
I resisted for years, not the believing (I think I was born believing), but the organized structured religion part and still do as a rule.
There is a scripture that paraphrased says .... each is given a measure of faith. I take that literally. Some believe stronger than others and that is the way it is.
I also like the little church sign ditty ...
Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth.
I've dabbled with many things.
Learned a little about a lot.
This was the answer for me.
I took all the time I needed to make a decision.
Haven't regretted it at all.
So much to learn, so little time.
Even now, this is a hit and run.
Oh well.  |
bamuda, I know this is way late but, thank you for your kind words. I am always pleasantly surprised to come here and read thoughts that aren't spoken harshly. I too have felt that I was born believing, only it took me many years to realize that the emptyness I always felt in my life, was never going be filled with wordly "things"....tough lesson for me to learn!
I'm only speaking of my feelings and how I survived through a dark period in my life and by His grace, I was able to experience the Holy Spirit at work! I would not be where I am today had I not gone through that tribulation, and I truly feel blessed. I believe God puts people and circumstances in our lives to shape our character for his divine purpose.
Faith is each person’s positive response to God, our decision to believe and trust, that comes from the free will that God has given us.
I enjoy reading your words bamuda, they are encouraging!
Amanda, I appreciate your kind words as well and I enjoy reading your posts.
Ineed2Know...Wow..if you're not a pastor, you should be! I believe you have been given the gift of teaching words of wisdom.
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:17 pm |
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| pax wrote: | Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect. |
you're just saying that because I have not turned anyone into a toad in a really long time! 
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| Lexy
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:43 pm |
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I came across this the other day, thought I'd share......
One rainy afternoon I was driving along one of the main streets of town, taking those extra precautions necessary when the roads are wet and slick.
Suddenly, my daughter, spoke up from her relexed position in her seat. "Dad, I'm thinking of something."
This announcement usually meant she had been pondering some fact for a while, and was now ready to expound all that her six-year-old mind had discovered. I was eager to hear.
"What are you thinking?" I asked. "The rain," she began, "is like sin, and the windshield wipers are like God wiping our sins away."
After the chill bumps raced up my arms I was able to respond. "That's really good, Aspen."
Then my curiosity broke in. How far would this little girl take this revelation? So I asked.."Do you notice how the rain keeps on coming? What does that tell you?" Aspen didn't hesitate one moment with her answer.."We keep on sinning, and God just keeps on forgiving us."
I will always remember this whenever I turn my wipers on.
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Joined: 14 May 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:57 pm |
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| MyContentions wrote: | | pax wrote: | Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect. |
you're just saying that because I have not turned anyone into a toad in a really long time! |
LOL.
Praise Geebus!
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Wish You Were Here
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| bamuda
Posted:
Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:36 pm |
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Thank you MC, for trying to help me understand your beliefs.
I gathered that you agree that we are born with a sin nature then?
If we carry evil within us, we are born with this evil?
What do you think happens when we die?
Please don't turn me into a toad.
Amanda, you are a fine writer yourself.
Your thoughts and feelings were clear and to the point.
Soft spoken and gentle ...
When you believe what you believe without a doubt, it is easier to share your beliefs and want to share them.
You are not threatened by a different view. FWIW, I saw that in you.
Lexy, thank you for the sweet story and kind words.
More and more I see that we are different, yet all the same.
It makes me want to share a dream I had over twenty years ago.
I found myself in a doorway, looking in a room.
The rooms were filled with flat, dry, brown, little fishes.
They were parched and thin.
They must have water, they must have it now!
I ran to water, there was a bucket in my hand.
I threw it on the fishes.
They plumped and puffed up right before my eyes.
The colors of the rainbow, full of life and they were gone.
The meaning to me was simple.
The fishes were people.
The water was the good word that feeds the spirit.
I would share my water with the fishes.
Those touched would have the life that water brings.
That was my dream, it was something I needed at the time and still do even to this day.
I am surrounded by dry, flat, hungry little fishes. I love the little fishes.
It makes me think of this message board, each avenue you take leads you to the ones that you need in your life to finish your earthly education.
Some learn faster than others I guess.
I must be slow.
I also agree Lexy with your thoughts of N2K.
The message you share N2K is heartfelt, sincere, and passionate.
I admire the way that you speak your mind and remain a gentleman.
Pax, isn't this fun. Thoughtful conversation. Peaceful exchanges.
The meaning of life explained from different perspectives, in a quiet and calming room.
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Resident Philosopher
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1157
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:54 am |
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Yes, Bamuda. You describe it well. My thoughts on this stuff change every few years, and it's great to hear so many different perspectives.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16326
Location: Wish You Were Here
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| justamom
Posted:
Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:56 am |
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| pax wrote: | Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect. |
Me too. Nice to see it happening. Im nice to almost everyone. I was raised catholic so I have a built in guilt button
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justaMILF
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 6604
Location: in a cute farmhouse
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| bamuda
Posted:
Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:11 pm |
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| justamom wrote: | | pax wrote: | Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect. |
Me too. Nice to see it happening. Im nice to almost everyone. I was raised catholic so I have a built in guilt button |
You are such a nice person JAM!
I agree, I have felt guilty just for THINKING before!
Talk about a guilt button.
I was always taught that each thought, word and deed would be recorded and you would be held accountable one day. Wears my butt out!
I think there will be a HUGE library in Heaven. Each of us will have a detailed account of our life. The book we always meant to write ...
has already been started and being added to daily.
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Resident Philosopher
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 1157
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:08 pm |
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| justamom wrote: | | pax wrote: | Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect. |
Me too. Nice to see it happening. Im nice to almost everyone. I was raised catholic so I have a built in guilt button |
LOL.
Sometimes that built in guilt button works wonders for getting along with others in large groups.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16326
Location: Wish You Were Here
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| MyContentions
Posted:
Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:38 pm |
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"Thank you MC, for trying to help me understand your beliefs.
I gathered that you agree that we are born with a sin nature then?
If we carry evil within us, we are born with this evil?
What do you think happens when we die?
Please don't turn me into a toad. "
Bamuda,
First off, no I am not going to turn you into a toad. I have decided that if I ever invoke human-toad transformation powers again that I will start with Pax!
Secondly, I can't agree with your statement that we are "born" with a sin nature because that would imply that human beings are born in or of sin and need in some way to be cleansed, redeemed or saved.
I think all human beings are born possessed of the whole gamut, including the capability for evil. Whether that evil is released or not depends on psychiatric, psychological, environment, whatever have you elements. Basically, it's the difference between all of your cerebral nuts and bolts being tightly in place or having some screws loosened!
I believe that when we die, our "spirits" (for lack of a better word) continue to exist, either by being trapped in this world (ghosts), moving on to the next dimension (but still capable of presenting themselves), or being "recycled" (reincarnation).
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** Banned **
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 312
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| justamom
Posted:
Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:16 pm |
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| bamuda wrote: | | justamom wrote: | | pax wrote: | Yay!
I love it when people can discuss such personal thoughts and treat each other with respect. |
Me too. Nice to see it happening. Im nice to almost everyone. I was raised catholic so I have a built in guilt button |
You are such a nice person JAM!
I agree, I have felt guilty just for THINKING before!
Talk about a guilt button.
I was always taught that each thought, word and deed would be recorded and you would be held accountable one day. Wears my butt out!
I think there will be a HUGE library in Heaven. Each of us will have a detailed account of our life. The book we always meant to write ...
has already been started and being added to daily. |
I was taught if you think it its as bad as doing it because the thought process has begun in making it real. Im sure my big book in heaven will have lots of ideas I have I didnt go through with haha and probably best I hadnt.
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justaMILF
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 6604
Location: in a cute farmhouse
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