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prolific
 Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:31 am |
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I'm still trying to figure out how someone puts a condom on while holding down a screaming victim. Isn't that usually a two handed process?
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 9559
Location: Living happily in my "clueless" little world.
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| RatPatrol
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:35 am |
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| xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | Heli wrote: | | xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | All this supposedly happened last summer, right? |
What the columbian allegedly observed occurred May 29/30, 2005. He supposedly came forward with his story and physical evidence approximately 2 months ago. That's my understanding from info revealed by JQK and Jossy Mansur recently. |
Wow, this man witnessed a horric crime, collected evidence from the beach to support his story, and sat on it all until a year later?
I really hope his story is true because that means there's finally some closure for everyone involved, but I really can't help to be skeptical of it. I'm curious to know what kept him from coming foward earlier on. |
Probably the guy was not a quick study, so Uncle Jossy needed months rather than the usual weeks to teach him his "lines". 
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On the Prowl
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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| victims cry
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:39 am |
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| Heli wrote: | | xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | All this supposedly happened last summer, right? |
What the columbian allegedly observed occurred May 29/30, 2005. He supposedly came forward with his story and physical evidence approximately 2 months ago. That's my understanding from info revealed by JQK and Jossy Mansur recently. |
Ok I have two questions.
1. Why do people think the pipe washed up on shore? It seems that from what JQK said, as well as the dives/searches in the last 2 months by ALE it was found in the area that this guy said the body was dumped which would mean divers. As far as not finding it before, remember the "foot by foot" search of the park for chandra levy who was finally found a year later or so or months by a some one, and it was feet from the area searched?
2. The information that i believe isnt jossy's, hes a crazy old man as is his sidekick Art Wood, so anything he said is ummm less than credible. However, I do believe ALE has him detained, he is detained in the NH case (as per Glenda for participating in the disposal of a body) and that they did find a weight (be it pipe or otherwise) near the area of the ocean that carlos pointed out. It also wouldnt surprise me if he did see a rape/murder by a 3rd party who also had a car parked just off the beach. He is there illegally, do we know if he is a crackhead? has a criminal history? etc etc etc.
FYI im pretty sure i know how jossy managed to weave a bit of cloth into his story  Way back when the family was in aruba on the first days, A little girl ran up to beth and another person on the beach, with a piece of teal green thread. Beth cut it in half and gave half to the other person. It was tested and found not to be from clothing let alone natalee's outfit. (which is why even that lying bitch didnt come out with it). I am sure thats jossy's cloth bit! He just weaves everything in to try and make it one story and look like joran
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On Vacation!
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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| Glenda
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:40 am |
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| Heli wrote: | | xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | All this supposedly happened last summer, right? |
What the columbian allegedly observed occurred May 29/30, 2005. He supposedly came forward with his story and physical evidence approximately 2 months ago. That's my understanding from info revealed by JQK and Jossy Mansur recently. |
Nope, JQK knew about this witness in January!
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The Good Witch
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| mojo
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:45 am |
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| Glenda wrote: |
Nope, JQK knew about this witness in January! |
and when did he approach ALE? sounds as though he's been floating around for awhile
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Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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| iquitos
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:02 pm |
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Another bogus "witness"
Jossy keeps pulling exclusive witnesses out of his bag of shit. I doubt this is the same guy who called the cops that JQK told us about. If it is, why did he happen to go to Jossy first? Or is he a creation out of whole cloth being held only because he is illegal? Is this being put out to scare somebody? This is just another opportunity for Jossy to get his face on cable on a weekend show nobody watches. This is like his investigative crew chasing the car with natalee in it as they abductors sought to take her off the island to Venezuela/Colombia. Remember Herbert Thiel? These people are whack jobs.
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beady eyed rat
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
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Location: nowhere man
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| Maybelline
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:14 pm |
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| Glenda wrote: | | Heli wrote: | | xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | All this supposedly happened last summer, right? |
What the columbian allegedly observed occurred May 29/30, 2005. He supposedly came forward with his story and physical evidence approximately 2 months ago. That's my understanding from info revealed by JQK and Jossy Mansur recently. |
Nope, JQK knew about this witness in January! |
Glenda, is this the crying man on the phone to CnCs on New Year's Eve? Out of the country and couldn't speak English?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Heli
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:33 pm |
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| Glenda wrote: | | Heli wrote: | | xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | All this supposedly happened last summer, right? |
What the columbian allegedly observed occurred May 29/30, 2005. He supposedly came forward with his story and physical evidence approximately 2 months ago. That's my understanding from info revealed by JQK and Jossy Mansur recently. |
Nope, JQK knew about this witness in January! |
How long ago did this guy come forward? Now I'm confused, especially since he's an illegal. They knew about him back in January but didn't pick him up until 2 months ago, 1 month ago?
Nuts !!
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Transcription Goddess
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Puffed Up DimWit
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| DiamondDot
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:37 pm |
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| victims cry wrote: |
Ok I have two questions.
1. Why do people think the pipe washed up on shore? It seems that from what JQK said, as well as the dives/searches in the last 2 months by ALE it was found in the area that this guy said the body was dumped which would mean divers. As far as not finding it before, remember the "foot by foot" search of the park for chandra levy who was finally found a year later or so or months by a some one, and it was feet from the area searched?
2. The information that i believe isnt jossy's, hes a crazy old man as is his sidekick Art Wood, so anything he said is ummm less than credible. However, I do believe ALE has him detained, he is detained in the NH case (as per Glenda for participating in the disposal of a body) and that they did find a weight (be it pipe or otherwise) near the area of the ocean that carlos pointed out. It also wouldnt surprise me if he did see a rape/murder by a 3rd party who also had a car parked just off the beach. He is there illegally, do we know if he is a crackhead? has a criminal history? etc etc etc.
FYI im pretty sure i know how jossy managed to weave a bit of cloth into his story Way back when the family was in aruba on the first days, A little girl ran up to beth and another person on the beach, with a piece of teal green thread. Beth cut it in half and gave half to the other person. It was tested and found not to be from clothing let alone natalee's outfit. (which is why even that lying bitch didnt come out with it). I am sure thats jossy's cloth bit! He just weaves everything in to try and make it one story and look like joran |
VC, if Natalee went back to the hotel, before running away, she probably changed clothes, too.
Jossy was adament that evidence would be found in the landfill. Beth even said she was absolutely sure evidence would be found there. Jossy suddenly produced a witness who saw Natalee being disposed of.
ALE halted the search in the landfill. Now, Jossy's witness has 'definitive' proof. Beth has said she will only return to Aruba if she is needed to identify something to do with this case.
IMO, Beth is supposed to do a dramatic identification for the cameras filming her docu-drama. On the LineUp 06/24/06, Beth was peeved that she has not been called to Aruba in regards to this witness.
Beth is a terrible actress. She's very transparent.
BTW.. I also got the impression that Dave is not covering her ass anymore.
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Double D
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Surfin' the Rhythms of the Universe
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:30 pm |
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What is light hair? I think the idea of light hair is relative to what a person has been exposed to every day. If I were raised in an area where 99% of the people had dark thick black hair, would I consider other hair colors light? If someone had short, brown hair, and a white scalp, would that look like "light hair" in the moonlight? Perhaps the hair color is a point of view? What color hair is most common on Aruba? JMHO
The same may be said of the car color. Was the car parked in the shade of something? Would that have made it appear darker? Was the car illuminated by the moon? If he saw the man take something out of the trunk, what was it? Was the trunk/car in such a position that it appeared dark? And thus, he was unable to determine much other than the movements of shadows? JMHO
I imagine that when the man dragged the woman to the water, he was in better lighting. JMHO
Here is the link for what some believe are pictures of Natalee's shirt - http://photobucket.com/albums/a164/Wick3dsbaby/
I think if the man is smart, he may have waited until some of the publicity died down. Who could he trust in ALE? Look at all the media hoopla? If he thought this was Joran, what in the case that he saw, and heard in the case discussion of those around him would make him want to trust the investigators? Perhaps he finally felt comfortable coming forward? JMHO
Regardless of who the person he saw was, people die their hair every day. I see many young males and females with bleached hair, blue hair, red hair, etc. Showing one's roots seems to be common. JMHO
Who in Aruba would an illegal trust? Even if the man cannot speak English, he may understand the basics of vulgar language. JMHO
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6314
Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| Fiery
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:45 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: | What is light hair? I think the idea of light hair is relative to what a person has been exposed to every day. If I were raised in an area where 99% of the people had dark thick black hair, would I consider other hair colors light? If someone had short, brown hair, and a white scalp, would that look like "light hair" in the moonlight? Perhaps the hair color is a point of view? What color hair is most common on Aruba? JMHO
The same may be said of the car color. Was the car parked in the shade of something? Would that have made it appear darker? Was the car illuminated by the moon? If he saw the man take something out of the trunk, what was it? Was the trunk/car in such a position that it appeared dark? And thus, he was unable to determine much other than the movements of shadows? JMHO
I imagine that when the man dragged the woman to the water, he was in better lighting. JMHO
Here is the link for what some believe are pictures of Natalee's shirt - http://photobucket.com/albums/a164/Wick3dsbaby/
I think if the man is smart, he may have waited until some of the publicity died down. Who could he trust in ALE? Look at all the media hoopla? If he thought this was Joran, what in the case that he saw, and heard in the case discussion of those around him would make him want to trust the investigators? Perhaps he finally felt comfortable coming forward? JMHO
Regardless of who the person he saw was, people die their hair every day. I see many young males and females with bleached hair, blue hair, red hair, etc. Showing one's roots seems to be common. JMHO
Who in Aruba would an illegal trust? Even if the man cannot speak English, he may understand the basics of vulgar language. JMHO |
THE STORY MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. AS A FENCE SITTER..I CAN'T EVEN BELIEV ANY OF IT. THE GUY IS IN JAIL..I BET HE HAS AN ATORNEY..I WONDER WHY?
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Who died and made YOU Darth Vader?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:48 pm |
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| Quote: | Jossy
Two pieces of evidence, but he didn't tell me at The Diario. He told me the next day, he took me to the exact spot. ... When they drove awhile later, he found a condom, put it away in (and?) a piece of cloth that seemed to belong to Natalee ... |
"When they drove awhile later" should this read "When they drove away later" ? I didn't see the broadcast. Is it possible that was more than two people on the beach and that we have just the description of the one given? Was there more than one person in the car that drove away? Could the piece of cloth have been underwear? JMHO
I keep thinking that weigh meant weights, like the circular weights attached to a barbell. Compact, heavy, easy to loop with a rope or chain. Pipe could have been the bar that the weights belong to. I imagine that a fit young person may indeed have a weight set in the trunk of their car. JMHO
If the body were weighted down, and sank. I would imagine that it would be easy to locate later. Perhaps someone recovered the body, and left the weights on the beach? There are many kinds of weights. Some that strap around the waist and are used by those that do lifting, and some that secure around ankles and wrists (joggers?). Weights and a pipe. JMHO
If the person were athletic, might they also have a jump rope in the trunk? Or those elastic resistence bands? That could have been used to tie up a body. JMHO
Lots of possibilities.
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
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Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:50 pm |
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| prolific wrote: | | I'm still trying to figure out how someone puts a condom on while holding down a screaming victim. Isn't that usually a two handed process? |
Perhaps the victim was coming in and out of consciousness? Wasn't fully aware? Perhaps there were more than just the two of them in the car?
I didn't read anything to suggest that the witness saw them arrive. He heard a scream and was alerted. JMHO
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
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| wildroses
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:56 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: | | prolific wrote: | | I'm still trying to figure out how someone puts a condom on while holding down a screaming victim. Isn't that usually a two handed process? |
Perhaps the victim was coming in and out of consciousness? Wasn't fully aware? Perhaps there were more than just the two of them in the car? |
How 'bout you chew on these ideas/suggestions for a while? Do you think Jossy has NH in his house? Do you think he's been keeping her there for a
+year? You don't like that one? O.K.. how's this one - do you think NH is in a vegetated state and being kept under wraps in Canada under an assumed name??
Eagerly waiting to hear your opinions!
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 5939
Location: Not WildFlowers, Not wildcat
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:01 pm |
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| DiamondDot wrote: | Jossy was adament that evidence would be found in the landfill. Beth even said she was absolutely sure evidence would be found there. Jossy suddenly produced a witness who saw Natalee being disposed of.
ALE halted the search in the landfill. Now, Jossy's witness has 'definitive' proof. Beth has said she will only return to Aruba if she is needed to identify something to do with this case.
IMO, Beth is supposed to do a dramatic identification for the cameras filming her docu-drama. On the LineUp 06/24/06, Beth was peeved that she has not been called to Aruba in regards to this witness.
Beth is a terrible actress. She's very transparent.
BTW.. I also got the impression that Dave is not covering her ass anymore. |
There are many kinds of evidence. If one is looking for a body that is different from a car seat or bloodied piece of clothing. MO
Wouldn't you want to talk to the person who may have witnessed your daughters last minutes of life? Perhaps that would provide some closure for Beth and Dave?
I don't think Beth has ever billed herself as an actress - she is just a mom. IMO
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6314
Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| Siddalee
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:16 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: | | DiamondDot wrote: | Jossy was adament that evidence would be found in the landfill. Beth even said she was absolutely sure evidence would be found there. Jossy suddenly produced a witness who saw Natalee being disposed of.
ALE halted the search in the landfill. Now, Jossy's witness has 'definitive' proof. Beth has said she will only return to Aruba if she is needed to identify something to do with this case.
IMO, Beth is supposed to do a dramatic identification for the cameras filming her docu-drama. On the LineUp 06/24/06, Beth was peeved that she has not been called to Aruba in regards to this witness.
Beth is a terrible actress. She's very transparent.
BTW.. I also got the impression that Dave is not covering her ass anymore. |
There are many kinds of evidence. If one is looking for a body that is different from a car seat or bloodied piece of clothing. MO
Wouldn't you want to talk to the person who may have witnessed your daughters last minutes of life? Perhaps that would provide some closure for Beth and Dave?
I don't think Beth has ever billed herself as an actress - she is just a mom. IMO |
Do you know something we don't know? How do you know for sure Natalee is dead? Were J2K REALLY the last ones to be with Natalee? How can we be sure? Would you like to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
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Ya-Ya!
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| jenna
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:18 pm |
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iwabwu,
I would like to know why you seem to constantly be promoting some version of a dead Natalee story. We don't know that Natalee is dead. Natalee could be alive out there some where suffering the mental effects of a drug and alcohol binge. She might not know where she is or who she is. Many years ago, my friend's brother went off for the weekend to Woodstock. He drank, drugged and who knows what else. He disappeared. He was found a long time later over 1000 miles away. He was suffering from severe drug induced schizophrenia and did not know his name. If Natalee has runaway, nobody is looking for her. She will not be found because attitudes like you project.
I just looked up and Siddalee must be thinking the same thing.
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| wildroses
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:24 pm |
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IWABWU
| wildroses wrote: | | iwabwu wrote: | | prolific wrote: | | I'm still trying to figure out how someone puts a condom on while holding down a screaming victim. Isn't that usually a two handed process? |
Perhaps the victim was coming in and out of consciousness? Wasn't fully aware? Perhaps there were more than just the two of them in the car? |
How 'bout you chew on these ideas/suggestions for a while? Do you think Jossy has NH in his house? Do you think he's been keeping her there for a
+year? You don't like that one? O.K.. how's this one - do you think NH is in a vegetated state and being kept under wraps in Canada under an assumed name??
Eagerly waiting to hear your opinions! |
How come you haven't commented yet? Is it because these ideas suggest NH is STILL alive? Is it because maybe there is a little truth in one of them? Is it because it doesn't fit in with what you are slinging around?
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Not WildFlowers, Not wildcat
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| Cat
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:26 pm |
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Diamond Dot: | Quote: | | BTW.. I also got the impression that Dave is not covering her ass anymore. |
You mean he finally awakened????? Wow!
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Meow
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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Location: Elysian Gardens
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| gaia
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:34 pm |
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I thought Dave had some sense from the beginning but seemed to "sell out" somewhere about the middle of this last year - to Beth's bunch. He kinda seemed to go in the tank with them. I was terribly disappointed with him. Then, he wrote that abysmal book! Lordy, what a crock! That just spoke volumes to me about where his sensitivities lie. This man is out for money after all, I guess. Sad but true. Perhaps it really is the root of all evil. Wish I had better things to say and think about ole Dave, but not anymore. Oh, next to Beth, he looks saintly, but I can't give him THAT much credit.
I do think he was genuinely cut up when Natalee went missing. I think he was sick at heart and tried to find her in the beginning, but somewhere along the line, he just plain stopped and gave up or something. Don't know what was the reason, but money figures into it to me.
Also, Dave has a new and different life. Natalee was his child, but she hadn't been his little girl for a long time. That, coupled with what he may have known about Natalee's more recent behavior, may have changed his feelings and opinion of her to some degree.
Some will not agree here, but these are the things I'm thinking about Dave these days. I'd love for him to prove me wrong but I'm thinking it's far too late for that!!
gaia
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: North Carolina
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:41 pm |
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| Siddalee wrote: | | iwabwu wrote: | | DiamondDot wrote: | Jossy was adament that evidence would be found in the landfill. Beth even said she was absolutely sure evidence would be found there. Jossy suddenly produced a witness who saw Natalee being disposed of.
ALE halted the search in the landfill. Now, Jossy's witness has 'definitive' proof. Beth has said she will only return to Aruba if she is needed to identify something to do with this case.
IMO, Beth is supposed to do a dramatic identification for the cameras filming her docu-drama. On the LineUp 06/24/06, Beth was peeved that she has not been called to Aruba in regards to this witness.
Beth is a terrible actress. She's very transparent.
BTW.. I also got the impression that Dave is not covering her ass anymore. |
There are many kinds of evidence. If one is looking for a body that is different from a car seat or bloodied piece of clothing. MO
Wouldn't you want to talk to the person who may have witnessed your daughters last minutes of life? Perhaps that would provide some closure for Beth and Dave?
I don't think Beth has ever billed herself as an actress - she is just a mom. IMO |
Do you know something we don't know? How do you know for sure Natalee is dead? Were J2K REALLY the last ones to be with Natalee? How can we be sure? Would you like to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? |
I don't know much for sure with regard to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
I'll go with Joran's opinion on the living/dead status of Natalee. I believe he stated in an interview (probably at Scrux) that he doesn't feel NH is still alive. ALE reported her deceased, retracted. Others have ventured opinions that she is deceased. JMHO
What evidence is there that she is still alive? Has anyone provided a verifiable sighting after 5/30/05?
Is there any evidence of Natalee's existence after she got into the Kalpoe vehicle early that morning?
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6314
Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| SavannahStar
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:45 pm |
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| prolific wrote: | | I'm still trying to figure out how someone puts a condom on while holding down a screaming victim. Isn't that usually a two handed process? |
prolific, this is Post of the Day, in my book!
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**SuperStar**
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Location: Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
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| xxjenniferdawnxx
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:27 pm |
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| iwabwu wrote: |
There are many kinds of evidence. If one is looking for a body that is different from a car seat or bloodied piece of clothing. MO
Wouldn't you want to talk to the person who may have witnessed your daughters last minutes of life? Perhaps that would provide some closure for Beth and Dave?
I don't think Beth has ever billed herself as an actress - she is just a mom. IMO |
Of course, I'm sure it would make her feel a world of difference to know her daughter was on the beach being raped and murdered while yelling, "No, no" and "Fuck, fuck."
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| iwabwu
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:36 pm |
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| xxjenniferdawnxx wrote: | | iwabwu wrote: |
There are many kinds of evidence. If one is looking for a body that is different from a car seat or bloodied piece of clothing. MO
Wouldn't you want to talk to the person who may have witnessed your daughters last minutes of life? Perhaps that would provide some closure for Beth and Dave?
I don't think Beth has ever billed herself as an actress - she is just a mom. IMO |
Of course, I'm sure it would make her feel a world of difference to know her daughter was on the beach being raped and murdered while yelling, "No, no" and "Fuck, fuck." |
We don't know for certain, that the person was dead when they were taken into the water. JMHO
Is it possible that they were just unconscious?
Does Carlos the Columbian know for certain the person was dead at that point? Why would he believe that?
Is it possible that the female awoke and freed herself from the weights?
Perhaps the body (living or dead) was not well secured (hasty work) and floated free a short time later?
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** Banned **
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6314
Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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| Siddalee
Posted:
Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:56 pm |
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| gaia wrote: | I thought Dave had some sense from the beginning but seemed to "sell out" somewhere about the middle of this last year - to Beth's bunch. He kinda seemed to go in the tank with them. I was terribly disappointed with him. Then, he wrote that abysmal book! Lordy, what a crock! That just spoke volumes to me about where his sensitivities lie. This man is out for money after all, I guess. Sad but true. Perhaps it really is the root of all evil. Wish I had better things to say and think about ole Dave, but not anymore. Oh, next to Beth, he looks saintly, but I can't give him THAT much credit.
I do think he was genuinely cut up when Natalee went missing. I think he was sick at heart and tried to find her in the beginning, but somewhere along the line, he just plain stopped and gave up or something. Don't know what was the reason, but money figures into it to me.
Also, Dave has a new and different life. Natalee was his child, but she hadn't been his little girl for a long time. That, coupled with what he may have known about Natalee's more recent behavior, may have changed his feelings and opinion of her to some degree.
Some will not agree here, but these are the things I'm thinking about Dave these days. I'd love for him to prove me wrong but I'm thinking it's far too late for that!!
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I believe that digging through that garbage dump for his daughter for days on end would take a toll on a man.
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Ya-Ya!
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 6208
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