�
 |
|
 |
|
|
| The True, Peaceful Face Of Islam, not radical extremism. - Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next |
| View previous topic
:: View next topic |
K Hemingway
 Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:31 pm |
|
|
|
The True, Peaceful Face Of Islam, not radical extremism.
What you MAY NOT KNOW about The True, Peaceful Face Of Islam
By Karen Armstrong
There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, and Islam is the world's fastest-growing religion. If the evil carnage we witnessed on Sept. 11 were typical of the faith, and Islam truly inspired and justified such violence, its growth and the increasing presence of Muslims in both Europe and the U.S. would be a terrifying prospect. Fortunately, this is not the case.
The very word Islam, which means "surrender," is related to the Arabic salam, or peace. When the Prophet Muhammad brought the inspired scripture known as the Koran to the Arabs in the early 7th century A.D., a major part of his mission was devoted precisely to bringing an end to the kind of mass slaughter we witnessed in New York City and Washington.
Pre-Islamic Arabia was caught up in a vicious cycle of warfare, in which tribe fought tribe in a pattern of vendetta and countervendetta. Muhammad himself survived several assassination attempts, and the early Muslim community narrowly escaped extermination by the powerful city of Mecca.
The Prophet had to fight a deadly war in order to survive, but as soon as he felt his people were probably safe, he devoted his attention to building up a peaceful coalition of tribes and achieved victory by an ingenious and inspiring campaign of nonviolence. When he died in 632, he had almost single-handedly brought peace to war-torn Arabia.
Because the Koran was revealed in the context of an all-out war, several passages deal with the conduct of armed struggle. Warfare was a desperate business on the Arabian Peninsula. A chieftain was not expected to spare survivors after a battle, and some of the Koranic injunctions seem to share this spirit. Muslims are ordered by God to "slay [enemies] wherever you find them!" (4: 89). Extremists such as Osama bin Laden like to quote such verses but do so selectively. They do not include the exhortations to peac[b]e, which in almost every case follow these more ferocious passages: "Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them" (4: 90).
[/b]
In the Koran, therefore, the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190).
Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40). The Koran quotes the Torah, the Jewish scriptures, which permits people to retaliate eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but like the Gospels, the Koran suggests that it is meritorious to forgo revenge in a spirit of charity (5: 45). Hostilities must be brought to an end as quickly as possible and must cease the minute the enemy sues for peace (2: 192-3).
Islam is not addicted to war, and jihad is not one of its "pillars," or essential practices. The primary meaning of the word jihad is not "holy war" but "struggle." It refers to the difficult effort that is needed to put God's will into practice at every level--personal and social as well as political. A very important and much quoted tradition has Muhammad telling his companions as they go home after a battle, "We are returning from the lesser jihad [the battle] to the greater jihad," the far more urgent and momentous task of extirpating wrongdoing from one's own society and one's own heart.
Islam did not impose itself by the sword. In a statement in which the Arabic is extremely emphatic, the Koran insists, "There must be no coercion in matters of faith!" (2: 256). Constantly Muslims are enjoined to respect Jews and Christians, the "People of the Book," who worship the same God (29: 46). In words quoted by Muhammad in one of his last public sermons, God tells all human beings, "O people! We have formed you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another" (49: 13)--not to conquer, convert, subjugate, revile or slaughter but to reach out toward others with intelligence and understanding.
So why the suicide bombing, the hijacking and the massacre of innocent civilians? Far from being endorsed by the Koran, this killing violates some of its most sacred precepts. But during the 20th century, the militant form of piety often known as fundamentalism erupted in every major religion as a rebellion against modernity. Every fundamentalist movement I have studied in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is convinced that liberal, secular society is determined to wipe out religion. Fighting, as they imagine, a battle for survival, fundamentalists often feel justified in ignoring the more compassionate principles of their faith. But in amplifying the more aggressive passages that exist in all our scriptures, they distort the tradition.
It would be as grave a mistake to see Osama bin Laden as an authentic representative of Islam as to consider James Kopp, the alleged killer of an abortion provider in Buffalo, N.Y., a typical Christian or Baruch Goldstein, who shot 29 worshipers in the Hebron mosque in 1994 and died in the attack, a true martyr of Israel. The vast majority of Muslims, who are horrified by the atrocity of Sept. 11, must reclaim their faith from those who have so violently hijacked it.
Karen Armstrong has written many books on religion, including Islam: A Short History, published last year by Modern Library
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101011001-175987,00.html
Plus...we have to take into consideration the that WE INVADED and OCCUPY their holy land in Iraq to take their oil. Our BEING there creates more National Security risks and exposes us to th rath of th extremists.
These ancient beliefs about holy lands are not exclusive to the middle east OR Islam
===
Indians threaten mass suicide to safeguard oil-rich lands - Robert Cobaria, council president of Colombia's U'wa people faces Occidental Oil and Gas Corp
Leslie Wirpsa
LOS ANGELES -- It was a collision of wildly contrasting worlds that occurred on May 6: in a Beverly Hills corporate office Roberto Cobaria, the council president of 23 communities of the indigenous U'wa people of Colombia, sang a song in the language of his people to three top executives of the Occidental Oil and Gas Corporation.
Cobaria said the U'wa teach the song to their children to help them learn the importance of respect -- for family, for others, for life.
Cobaria traveled in early May to New York, Washington and Los Angeles from his rural community, which embraces sections of five departments in northeastern Colombia, bearing a somber message: If Occidental insists on exploring and drilling for oil in territory the 5,000 U'wa claim is theirs, the Indians, in accordance with their oral history, will commit collective suicide by leaping from a cliff in the Andes.
According to Cobaria, this ultimatum was decided upon by tribal elders after contradictory rulings from two Colombian courts left intact Occidental's government-granted license to operate on land claimed by the Indians under ancestral titles.
"I told [the executives] I came with an attitude of respect. I asked them to excuse me for coming to bother them but that it wasn't the fault of my people that I had to come," Cobaria said at a news conference after the meeting.
An environmental lawyer who sat in on the meeting said he believed Cobaria's song affected the executives. "I think they realized that it is not just a bunch of people they are dealing with, but a whole culture," he said.
Cobaria's U.S. trip, sponsored by Amazon Watch, the Action Resource Center and the Coalition for Amazonian Peoples and Their Environment, is indicative of a growing activism among Latin American indigenous and grassroots organizations in the international arena. As globalization of the economy redefines the roles of governments and private investors, and as capital crisscrosses continents more freely, nongovernmental organizations are taking the lead in dealing directly with the economic actors that affect their lives. In this case, an Indian from a remote area of Colombia got a face-to-face meeting with executives of the largest oil developer operating in Colombia.
Ultimatum on hold
For now, both the U'wa's collective death threat and Occidental's seismic exploration in Colombia's contested Samore area have been placed on hold. Cobaria and his legal adviser, Edgar Mendez from the National Indigenous Organization of Colombia -- ONIC -- have returned to the Andean foothills and the eastern Colombian plains to consult with the werjaya -- the U'wa shamans -- and elders. Occidental's executives back in California are contemplating an invitation from Cobaria to visit the U'wa homeland. They are also digesting the Beverly Hills encounter.
"We learned that this is a complex matter. We got into a discussion with Mr. Cobaria of the [U'wa] spiritual views of the world, of how the U'wa react to the environment -- the weather, the sky, the earth, what's under the earth -- of what's important in their society and culture. It was quite interesting," said Lawrence P. Meriage, vice president of executive services and public affairs for Occidental, in a telephone interview from the corporate world headquarters in Bakersfield, Calif.
No more `easy places'
Occidental, Meriage said, is "committed to see what we have to do to find solutions." He said inviting third party mediators into the negotiating process, "academics, not activists," might help Occidental and the U'wa strike an agreement to allow oil development with respect for the indigenous culture and land. Under Colombia's 1991 Constitution, indigenous communities must be consulted in decisions about natural resource development projects that will affect them.
Tensions like those between Occidental and the U'wa are likely to multiply in the future as economies that previously restricted capitalist development seek paths out of poverty by integrating into global markets.
The increase in demand for energy has begun to place greater and greater pressures on culturally and environmentally sensitive areas. According to Meriage, "All of the easy places to find oil and gas have been explored."
Meriage pointed to Occidental's programs in the Ecuadoran Amazon as "model operations of how things should be done in environmentally sensitive areas." There, he said, the company backs micro-enterprise development -- fish farms and chicken hatcheries -- in surrounding communities. He claimed companies like Occidental are learning to use "state of the art technology" to "leave the smallest possible footprint behind them" in such regions.
But environmental activists and advocates of indigenous communities tell another story. Lucy graham, from the Malibu, Calif.-based Action Resource Center, was critical of Occidental's track record in the Andes. In Ecuador and Peru, she said, "there is a pattern of disregard for indigenous communities in favor of company profits." Texaco and the state oil concern, Petroecuador, came under fire from U.S. and European environmental organizations for their track record in the Ecuadoran Amazon.
Meriage said in the U'wa case, Occidental has offered scholarships to eight or 10 indigenous students annually and has discussed setting up health, education and other development programs in local communities. He said that after a string of negotiating sessions, the U'wa had previously agreed to allow Occidental to go ahead with seismic activity on the U'wa reservation.
ONIC's Mendez said many indigenous communities have been "bought off" with "schools and cement structures." He said "outboard motors and prefabricated houses" are the "mirrors" of today, referring to the Spanish conquistadores' use of such objects as mirrors and trinkets in business deals with Indians when they arrived in the Americas over 500 years ago.
Mendez said policies used by multinational companies have created divisions among some indigenous communities. Some leaders, he said, have been co-opted into signing agreements. "Many Indians have forgotten their traditional, mythical world and negotiated, even though they believe, like the U'wa, that the death of the earth will bring their death. In many communities, they have been bought off, deceived."
Cobaria insisted that oil production on U'wa land must not go forward. In U'wa cosmology, the land is the flesh of the mother, the root of creation, the sustenance of life and the font of collective memory and spirit.
"Oil is the blood of our mother earth. . . . It is not negotiable," he told reporters in front of Occidental's Beverly Hills offices. "If Occidental moves in by force, there will be a suicide."
`We cannot negotiate'
Cobaria said no dialogue took place with Occidental representatives during the May 6 meeting. "No one took any positions. They gave us no answers and they did not commit themselves to giving an opinion. We can hold thousands of meetings like this, but this is a lost cause. We cannot negotiate," he said.
Mendez said the meeting served to clarify previous comments from Occidental representatives linking the U'wa people to Colombian guerrillas. Operating near U'wa territory are rebels from the Armed Revolutionary Forces of Colombia -- FARC -- and the National Liberation Army -- ELN. One of the pillars of the ELN's political platform is the nationalization of natural resources, especially petroleum. The rebels have bombed oil pipelines at least 460 times since 1985. Other guerrilla practices include the kidnapping of oil company executives and the extraction of bribes -- often referred to colloquially as "war taxes" -- from foreign investors operating in Colombia.
"We regard the U'wa as victims of the guerrillas. We have been victims of the guerrillas. We have had seismic workers killed, Colombian nationals working for Occidental," Meriage said. A chronology of the Samore oil scheme provided by Meriage lists instances where rebels reportedly threatened the U'wa, prompting them to postpone signing agreements with the corporation.
Debra Delavan, from the Washington-based Coalition for Amazonian Peoples and their Environment, said linkage of the U'wa to rebels is equivalent to a death sentence for the Indians. "Given the situation in Colombia, any allegations about involvement with guerrilla forces in Colombia can set up the U'wa people for reprisal from the military and paramilitary forces," she said.
A news release from the organization expressed concern about such confusion "in light of New York Times revelations in 1996 that Occidental pays the Colombian military millions of dollars each year for security."
Meriage said the company does pay for some security, but that Colombian troops are there only to protect people and assets, not in an offensive capacity. "We are absolutely required to [provide money] out there if we want any protection at all," he said. Ten percent of Occidental's operating costs in Colombia, he said, go toward paying for a wide variety of security measures.
Cobaria claimed that cultural, spiritual and physical survival -- not rebel threats -- have inspired his people to maintain their staunch opposition to Occidental's activities on their land. Standing in front of Occidental's offices, flanked by a banner saying, "Stop the OXY-cution of the U'wa," he employed a logic unfamiliar to a profit-driven world to try to explain his community's resistance: "If the oil is theirs, from where did they bring it? There is a reason oil has two names -- we call it duidia -- and it is older than the world itself."
===
What a world of misunderstanding and lack of respect for fellow man, human life and ancient deeply held faith, cultural values and beliefs we live in...all for oil.
And how sad our ignorance is so quick to judge, hate and inflict injustice..
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
 |
 |
 |
|
| K Hemingway
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:52 pm |
|
|
|
To be clear why I made the above post.
Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian
November 12, 2007
"In the internet age, there are going to be lies that are spread all over the place. I have been victimized by these lies. Fortunately, the American people are, I think, smarter than folks give them credit for."
OBAMA IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN A MUSLIM
Open Letter from Religious Leaders Supporting Obama
Los Angeles Times: The Rumors About Obama Are "False And Vile." The Los Angeles Times wrote in an editorial, "That the rumors are false and vile is self-evident...Presidential candidates of both parties have a duty to denounce not only the smear against Obama but the bigotry that underlies it." [Los Angeles Times, 12/3/07]
Obama Spokesman Robert Gibbs Issued A Statement Explaining That "Senator Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, Was Not Raised As A Muslim, And Is A Committed Christian." "Obama's campaign aides have emphasized his strong Christian beliefs and downplayed any Islamic connection. The Illinois senator was raised 'in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother,’ his chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said in a statement in January after false reports began circulating that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Koranic school, as a child. 'To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago,’ Gibbs' Jan. 24 statement said." [Los Angeles Times, 3/16/07]
Obama "Beckoning" Felt At Trinity United Church Of Christ, "Submitted Myself To His Will, And Dedicated Myself To Discovering His Truth And Carrying Out His Works." Obama said, "So one Sunday, I put on one of the few clean jackets I had, and went over to Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street on the South Side of Chicago. And I heard Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright deliver a sermon called "The Audacity of Hope." And during the course of that sermon, he introduced me to someone named Jesus Christ. I learned that my sins could be redeemed. I learned that those things I was too weak to accomplish myself, He would accomplish with me if I placed my trust in Him. And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life. It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn't fall out in church, as folks sometimes do. The questions I had didn't magically disappear. The skeptical bent of my mind didn't suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works." [Speech, 6/23/07]
Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim. Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ.
Obama's Step-Father Saw Religion "As Not Particularly Useful," But Followed "A Brand of Islam" That Made Room for Animist and Hindu Faiths. Obama wrote in the Audacity of Hope, "When my mother remarried, it was to an Indonesian with an equally skeptical bent, a man who saw religion as not particularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world, and who had grown up in a country that easily blended its Islamic faith with remnants of Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient animist traditions." Obama wrote in Dreams from My Father, "Like many Indonesians, Lolo followed a brand of Islam that could make room for the remnants of more ancient animist and Hindu faiths." [Audacity of Hope, p 204; Dreams From My Father, p 37]
Obama Found Faith During Community Organizing Days. "It was at Trinity United Church of Christ here, in the late 1980s, that Senator Obama says he found religion. Raised in a secular household, with ancestral roots running from Islam to Baptist to atheist, Obama had grown up a skeptic. But Mr. Wright's blend of scripture and social action resonated with Obama, then a young community organizer in black neighborhoods ravaged by steel-mill closings." [Christian Science Monitor, 7/16/07]
HE NEVER ATTENDED A RADICAL MUSLIM SCHOOL
CNN Reporter: I've Been to Madrassas in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Obama's Indonesian Elementary School Is Nothing Like That. On January 22, CNN Reporter John Vause reported, "I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta, looking for what some are calling an Islamic Madrassa, like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.. I've been to those Madrassas in Pakistan and Wolf, this school is nothing like that." [CNN, Situation Room, 1/22/07]
===
The FEAR SMEARS as I call them, with viral emails...have forced Obama to defend himself rather than speaking tio the issues.
But...the point I'm making is....EVEN IF HE WERE A 'MUSLIM; AT ONE TIME...WHY DOES THAT HAVE SUCH A NEGATIVE CONNOTATION?
And the most important point is...because he grew up in such diverse cultures...he seeks first to understand.
The FIRST principle in the 10 habits of highly successful people.
And to me....that means he will use all his skills when dealing with our allies and enemies...seek first to understand....then use firm diplomacy, sanctions....and last resort...military force.
Plus he know the difference between the sunni and the shia. 
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:09 pm |
|
|
|
K Hemenway said:
" ... And to me....that means he will use all his skills when dealing with our allies and enemies...seek first to understand....then use firm diplomacy, sanctions....and last resort...military force.
Plus he know the difference between the sunni and the shia. [/quote]
Yif said:
Kay, what I think Obama also brings to the table is his familiarity with different cultures around the world. He is not a Muslim, he is a Christian but he has an understanding of other cultures and that is a plus at this time. It is all about understanding people.
|
|
YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6605
Location: France
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| K Hemingway
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:18 pm |
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france wrote: | K Hemenway said:
" ... And to me....that means he will use all his skills when dealing with our allies and enemies...seek first to understand....then use firm diplomacy, sanctions....and last resort...military force.
Plus he know the difference between the sunni and the shia. |
Yif said:
Kay, what I think Obama also brings to the table is his familiarity with different cultures around the world. He is not a Muslim, he is a Christian but he has an understanding of other cultures and that is a plus at this time. It is all about understanding people.[/quote]
Exactly!!! Seek first to understand. How else can a leader analyze his/her own strengths and leverage them, and weaknesses to shore them up, in a dispute without understanding it?
How can a leader jocky for a position of strength without knowing exactly what the other's position is?
It's not enough to say we have a mightier military, especially when you've burned bridges will all your allies.
There is always a way for one or the other to get a more powerful weapon.
Last edited by K Hemingway on Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:18 pm |
|
|
|
Two words,
HONOR KILLINGS
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:24 pm |
|
|
|
No way, no how, no McCain!
|
|
YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6605
Location: France
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:29 pm |
|
|
|
| K Hemingway wrote: |
Exactly!!! Seek first to understand. How else can a leader analyze his/her own strengths and leverage them, and weaknesses to shore them up, in a dispute without understanding it?
How can a leader jocky for a position of strength without knowing exactly what the other's position is?
It's not enough to say we have a mightier military, especially when you've burned bridges will all your allies.
There is always a way for one or the other to get a more powerful weapon. |
Americans are woefully lacking in understanding the Muslim mentality which makes compromise more difficult. Obama is our best hope at reducing anti-American sentiments in the Muslim world.
|
|
YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6605
Location: France
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:30 pm |
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france wrote: |
Americans are woefully lacking in understanding the Muslim mentality which makes compromise more difficult. Obama is our best hope at reducing anti-American sentiments in the Muslim world. |
I'm waiting for you to explain honor killings.
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:40 pm |
|
|
|
| Phantom wrote: |
I'm waiting for you to explain honor killings. |
I don't believe in killing.
You're talking about Muslim law, what do they call it, Shiriah. I haven't a clue, Phantom, but I do not believe that Obama is in favor of it so what are we talking about.
|
|
YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6605
Location: France
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:42 pm |
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france wrote: |
I don't believe in killing. |
So how can a religion be "peaceful" if they permit honor killings?
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:48 pm |
|
|
|
[quote="Phantom"
So how can a religion be "peaceful" if they permit honor killings?[/quote]
Sorry, my friend, a bit tired over here.
My hubby and I have peaceful Muslim friends in London who believe in all the good things that we do. I understand that there is wording in the Koran that is not all about peace. Shiriah (forgive me for my bad spelling) law is in my view insane. The genital mutilation of women, the honor killings, etc., are beyond anything peaceful. There are, however, peaceful Muslims who wish for nothing more than to peacefully live their lives and eke out an existence for their families.
Gotta run.
|
|
YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6605
Location: France
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Need2Know
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:49 pm |
|
|
|
| Phantom wrote: |
So how can a religion be "peaceful" if they permit honor killings? |
Islam is NOT a peaceful religion, that is a myth and I have TONS of facts on that one but I will not post it now.
|
|
N2K
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 8941
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:51 pm |
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france wrote: |
I don't believe in killing.
You're talking about Muslim law, what do they call it, Shiriah. I haven't a clue, Phantom, but I do not believe that Obama is in favor of it so what are we talking about. |
I never said that Obama was in favor of honor killings. But it's telling that with-out even me making a connection like that, you did.
Me mention of honor killings went directly to the title of this thread.
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:52 pm |
|
|
|
| Need2Know wrote: |
Islam is NOT a peaceful religion, that is a myth and I have TONS of facts on that one but I will not post it now. |
Islam is a 12th century death cult masquerading as a 21st century religion
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| K Hemingway
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:54 pm |
|
|
|
| Need2Know wrote: |
Islam is NOT a peaceful religion, that is a myth and I have TONS of facts on that one but I will not post it now. |
What would Jesus do if sitting next to a Muslim ?
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Just sayin....
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pax
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:59 pm |
|
|
|
| Phantom wrote: |
Islam is a 12th century death cult masquerading as a 21st century religion |
From reading your posts, christianity and patriotism are 17th century death cults masquerading as the republican party.
|
|
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 16089
Location: Wish You Were Here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| K Hemingway
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:05 pm |
|
|
|
Religious traditions evolve over time. Christianity is a peacefull religion, but even the Old Testiment has something in it equivalent to an honor killing.
In the Old Testament there was a situation which allowed for a "blood avenger" (Numbers 35, Deuteronomy 19, Joshua 20). In essence, if your kin were slain by another person, the next of kin had the right to take the slayers’ life. If it was an accidental killing the slayer could flee to a city of refuge and be safe from the avenger. If it was a premeditated killing, there was no refuge for the murderer. This was, in a way a form of capital punishment although it also had elements of revenge. In the New Testament we are told in Romans 13 that the government has the right to terminate a human life under justifiable conditions, but does not have the right to take a life where there is no justification. Hence, the element of revenge has been eliminated from the concept of capital punishment.
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:05 pm |
|
|
|
Five women who wanted to pick their own husbands buried alive in mass honour killing
Five women were buried alive by their tribe in a mass honour killing prompted by their wish to choose their own husbands.
The victims, who included three teenagers, were abducted at gunpoint, beaten and shot before being thrown into a ditch.
They were still breathing as their bodies were covered with rocks and mud, according media reports and human rights activists.
The incident occurred in Baba Kot, a remote village in Jafferabad district, after the women decided to defy tribal elders and arrange marriages in a civil court, according to the Asian Human Rights Commission.
They were said to have been abducted at gunpoint by six men, forced into a vehicle and taken to a remote field, where they were beaten, shot and then buried alive, it said, accusing local authorities of trying to hush up the killings.
A Pakistani lawmaker provoked outrage by defending men from the Baluch tribe who had carried out the killings.
Israr Ullah Zehri told stunned members of Pakistan's parliament: 'These are centuries-old traditions and I will continue to defend them,'
'Only those who indulge in immoral acts should be afraid.'
He claimed the tribal traditions helped stop obscenity - and then asked fellow lawmakers not to make a big fuss about it.
Many stood up in protest, saying the executions were 'barbaric' and demanding more discussion.
But a handful said it was an internal matter of the deeply conservative province of Baluchistan.
'I was shocked,' said lawmaker Nilofar Bakhtiar, who pushed for legislation calling for perpetrators of so-called honour killings to be punished when she served as minister of women's affairs under the last government.
'I feel that we've gone back to the starting point again,' she said. 'It's really sad for me.'
The incident apparently occurred about a month ago.
Accounts about the killings have varied, largely because police in the tribal region have been uncooperative. Activists and lawmakers said a more thorough investigation needed to be carried out.
The Asian Human Rights Commission, however, said the two older women may have been related to some of the teenage girls and were apparently murdered because they were sympathetic to their wishes.
There have been claims one of the perpetrators was related to a top provincial official.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23548687-details/article.do?ito=newsnow&
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| K Hemingway
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:19 pm |
|
|
|
Sorry, you won't find any of that supported in the Qur'an. People misinterpret the Bible too.
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:51 pm |
|
|
|
Condition and whereabouts of two sisters, 12 and 10, unknown.
ISTANBUL, July 11 (Compass Direct News) – A Christian father in Pakistan is in a legal battle with kidnappers for the custody of his pre-teen daughters, who allegedly have been forced to convert to Islam.
Yesterday a judge in Pakistan’s Punjab province ordered further investigation into the kidnapping of Saba Younis, 12, and Aneela Younis, 10, who went missing on June 26 in the small town of Chowk Munda. The kidnappers filed for custody of the girls at the local police house on June 28, stating that the sisters had converted to Islam and their father no longer had jurisdiction over them.
When the father of the two girls, Younis Masih, was summoned to the police house to testify, police initially refused to file a case against the kidnappers – Muhammed Arif, Abjad Ali, taxi driver Muhammed Asraf and an unidentified fourth man – who are known to belong to a powerful human trafficking ring. Instead, human rights activists told Compass, Masih was told to “remain silent,” as the officers said the girls had embraced Islam in a written statement.
It was not until yesterday that, with the help of advocates and the Human Rights and Minorities Affairs Ministry, Masih filed an official complaint at the local police house.
The lawyer of the Christian family, Khalil Tahir, said that the kidnappers have likely raped and sold the two minors to a brothel. Local residents regard the men as serial kidnappers.
Many details about the condition and whereabouts of the girls remain unconfirmed, and the family has not had contact with them. Tahir said the perpetrators did not bring the kidnapped girls forward to the hearing yesterday.
“Perhaps they have been raped,” Tahir said. “We’ve had no contact with the girls.”
Tahir, a human rights activist as well as a lawyer, said that in Pakistan minors cannot be coerced into changing their faith. Also a member of the Provincial Assembly, Tahir said that if the District Police Officer (DPO) did not cooperate and file the case in his station, he would take immediate action.
“I’m trying to contact the District Police Officer about the registration of the criminal case,” said Tahir. “They have not yet registered the case. It is the duty of the DPO to register the case, but he’s failing to perform his duty, so I’m trying to contact him or else I’ll take it to the high court.”
Ashfaq Fateh, a Christian advocate who established contact with Masih this week, said that the girls’ Catholic family had not received threats for their faith. He asserted, however, that the kidnapping was a religious matter.
“Being weaker and belonging to the Christian community, the girls were kidnapped,” he said.
Saba and Aneela Younis, the youngest of eight children, were kidnapped while on their way to see their uncle.
“The kidnapping of my daughters has made me feel insecure in the country,” Masih told Fateh in a telephone conversation. “My Muslim countrymen think we [Christians] are not human beings. They think we do not have dignity.”
“This happens every day,” Tahir said of the kidnappings of Pakistani children and unjust treatment toward Christians, “because we are marginalized and downtrodden people.”
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5472&backpage=summaries&critere=&countryname=&rowcur=
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| plhtx1
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:03 pm |
|
|
|
How about the Muslim dad in Dallas that killed his 2 daughters because they were becoming to westernized? What kind of religion is that? So why was the dad living here if he didn't want his kids to become westernized. Very sad
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 2226
Location: The Vail Valley
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| K Hemingway
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:12 pm |
|
|
|
This will be my last post on the issue of 'Obama is a muslim'...commie, socialist, whitey hater etc. I'm just going to ignore them
The Clinton campaign tried all these old smear tactics during the primary campaign...while she got an initial bump with white blue collar workers in WV and Penn...IN THE END, she lost. In the end...the exit polls showed voters are no longer influenced by the smear tactics.
The smears aren't even worth TV coverage anymore...and will play LESS of a negative roll in the general election...if any.
I think voters have decided, given Bush's DOJ, FBI, CIa and pentagon super sekrit spying...and given Lieberman's hatred of all things in the middle east outside of Israel...after ALL this time...if there was something there to expose...it would be out there already.
I'm pretty confidant he's been THOROUGHLY VETTED by the current administration and McCain camp. JMHO
So I leave you to continue on with the smear campaign, unchallenged...cuz I don't think it's achieving it's intended goal.
|
|
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3736
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Phantom
Posted:
Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:19 pm |
|
|
|
| K Hemingway wrote: | This will be my last post on the issue of 'Obama is a muslim'...commie, socialist, whitey hater etc. I'm just going to ignore them
The Clinton campaign tried all these old smear tactics during the primary campaign...while she got an initial bump with white blue collar workers in WV and Penn...IN THE END, she lost. In the end...the exit polls showed voters are no longer influenced by the smear tactics.
The smears aren't even worth TV coverage anymore...and will play LESS of a negative roll in the general election...if any.
I think voters have decided, given Bush's DOJ, FBI, CIa and pentagon super sekrit spying...and given Lieberman's hatred of all things in the middle east outside of Israel...after ALL this time...if there was something there to expose...it would be out there already.
I'm pretty confidant he's been THOROUGHLY VETTED by the current administration and McCain camp. JMHO
So I leave you to continue on with the smear campaign, unchallenged...cuz I don't think it's achieving it's intended goal. |
Please direct me to where someone in THIS thread said that Obama was a Muslim.
I can't seem to find that connection mentioned in this thread.
Thank you.
|
|
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: My only friend, the end
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france
Posted:
Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:26 am |
|
|
|
| plhtx1 wrote: | | How about the Muslim dad in Dallas that killed his 2 daughters because they were becoming to westernized? What kind of religion is that? So why was the dad living here if he didn't want his kids to become westernized. Very sad |
I think that the Muslim dad was mentally ill. Most Muslims are peaceful, law-abiding citizens. It is the fanatics and others who latched on to this religion to justify murder and terrorist attacks who are responsible. Every religion has its violence and has caused throughout the centuries.
My one gripe with the law abiding Muslims is that I would prefer that their denunciation of those who have highjacked their religion be louder.
|
|
YIF
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6605
Location: France
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| plhtx1
Posted:
Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:16 am |
|
|
|
| yankee-in-france wrote: |
I think that the Muslim dad was mentally ill. Most Muslims are peaceful, law-abiding citizens. It is the fanatics and others who latched on to this religion to justify murder and terrorist attacks who are responsible. Every religion has its violence and has caused throughout the centuries.
My one gripe with the law abiding Muslims is that I would prefer that their denunciation of those who have highjacked their religion be louder. |
I agree, that it's ashame they don't speak out more about the extremists in their on religion. Those extremists want to destroy us and lets not forget about what happened to the Jews in WWII
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 2226
Location: The Vail Valley
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
�
Jasidogdotcom template v.1.0.4 © jasidog.com
Powered by phpBB
© 2001, 2004 phpBB Group
|
