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pax
 Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:59 am |
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The alibis
Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin claimed they were each at home the night of the murders. Jessie Misskely claimed he was at a wrestling match.
Did anyone testify at trial to support their alibis? Thanks in advance.
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:03 am |
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I do not believe anyone testified on behalf of Damien and Jason. I know police and Lax spoke to the two girls Damien was allegedly on the phone with for hours that night and the family his whole family viited that afternoon or evening. His parents and sister also support that. I think the family friend who was staying at Jason's was "unable to be found" who was there when Jason came home and called his mother at work, I believe in the area of 7pm that night, and he had a friend that said they did go to Wal-Mart to play video games. His mother recalls talking to him on the phone at home, and his younger brother was also there.
As far as Jesse, I could be wrong, but I think one of his friends does testify to them going to a wrestling match together that night.
I could be wrong. I will look up this info again to be more certain some time soon today. 
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Kentucky
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:29 pm |
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Thanks OG.
After posting that I read chapter 15 of Blood of the Innocents, which covers interviews before the trials. Prosecutor Fogelman conducted sworn interviews with Damien and Jason's family and friends and found inconsistencies in their alibis. Nothing that put them at the scene where the bodies were found, just things which suggest family and friends were unclear on time periods. Particularly regarding when Damien's father temporarily left his wife and when they claimed to be at the laundromat.
The book says Fogelman was concerned about the integrity of the police work and even wondered whether they had the right defendants. He must have put those doubts aside when proceeding to trial.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:32 pm |
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That's interesting Pax, because in Devil''s Knot he seems like a real asshole..I can't wait for the other book to arrive.
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li'l Shango's Mommy
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:59 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: | | That's interesting Pax, because in Devil''s Knot he seems like a real asshole..I can't wait for the other book to arrive. |
Yeah, well, maybe that too! I wonder what Fogelman is doing now, and whether he has commented publicly on the case.
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:01 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: | | That's interesting Pax, because in Devil''s Knot he seems like a real asshole..I can't wait for the other book to arrive. |
Ooh, what I meant was that the book says Fogelman was critical of the integrity of the work of the police. Yet somehow he went to trial with it any way. Yikes.
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:29 pm |
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| pax wrote: |
Yeah, well, maybe that too! I wonder what Fogelman is doing now, and whether he has commented publicly on the case. |
As far as I know he's a circuit judge....And he still stands behind the convictions I believe.
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li'l Shango's Mommy
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:35 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: |
As far as I know he's a circuit judge....And he still stands behind the convictions I believe. |
Thanks Hannie.
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:36 pm |
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| pax wrote: | Thanks OG.
After posting that I read chapter 15 of Blood of the Innocents, which covers interviews before the trials. Prosecutor Fogelman conducted sworn interviews with Damien and Jason's family and friends and found inconsistencies in their alibis. Nothing that put them at the scene where the bodies were found, just things which suggest family and friends were unclear on time periods. Particularly regarding when Damien's father temporarily left his wife and when they claimed to be at the laundromat.
The book says Fogelman was concerned about the integrity of the police work and even wondered whether they had the right defendants. He must have put those doubts aside when proceeding to trial. |
Yes, the prosecutors and judge... It all seems like a conspiracy. I also don't see how the prosecutors could do sworn interviews and the defense could not. I am not a lawyer, but is that normal, Pax?
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Kentucky
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:36 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: | | That's interesting Pax, because in Devil''s Knot he seems like a real asshole..I can't wait for the other book to arrive. |
Are you getting Blood of Innocents?
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 11754
Location: Kentucky
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:37 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: |
As far as I know he's a circuit judge....And he still stands behind the convictions I believe. |
He knows better. Some people have no shame. 
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Kentucky
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:37 pm |
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| Obscuregawdess wrote: |
Are you getting Blood of Innocents? |
Yes I ordered it a couple of days ago, but since it has to come out of the US it takes a day or 6 for me to receive it...
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li'l Shango's Mommy
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:52 pm |
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| Hannie wrote: |
Yes I ordered it a couple of days ago, but since it has to come out of the US it takes a day or 6 for me to receive it... |
Aaaah.  I read it before, but I ordered the CD version so I can listen to it. Lazy me, huh?
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Kentucky
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| pax
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:11 pm |
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| Obscuregawdess wrote: |
Yes, the prosecutors and judge... It all seems like a conspiracy. I also don't see how the prosecutors could do sworn interviews and the defense could not. I am not a lawyer, but is that normal, Pax? |
Not sure. Depends on the area.
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| Hannie
Posted:
Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:13 pm |
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| Obscuregawdess wrote: |
Aaaah. I read it before, but I ordered the CD version so I can listen to it. Lazy me, huh? |
Lol, no I want to read, I love reading! 
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li'l Shango's Mommy
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| prolific
Posted:
Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:58 am |
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That was one thing that stood out while I was watching the documentary, that Jessie said he was at a wrestling match.
I would think it would have been easy to confirm and was wondering if it was ever followed up on.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| pax
Posted:
Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:25 pm |
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| prolific wrote: | That was one thing that stood out while I was watching the documentary, that Jessie said he was at a wrestling match.
I would think it would have been easy to confirm and was wondering if it was ever followed up on. |
Me too. I'll look up what it says in Devil's Knot and Blood of the Innocents and post it here.
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| pax
Posted:
Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:22 pm |
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| prolific wrote: | That was one thing that stood out while I was watching the documentary, that Jessie said he was at a wrestling match.
I would think it would have been easy to confirm and was wondering if it was ever followed up on. |
Jessie's father places him still at home at 7:15 p.m. that evening. A neighbor states that he saw Jessie dressed in his wrestling gear sometime early that evening, which corresponds with Jessie's claim that he went with a group of friends to a ring in Dyess, Arkansas to participate in a match. Regretfully, several of Jessie's friends later apparently decided to try to "help" Jessie by making false statements to the police. One claimed to have been with Jessie in Dyess the night of the murders. A police statement he'd given prior to this claim was later read in court where he states he had never been to the Dyess ring until after May 5th. Two other wrestling teammates tried to claim they remembered being with Jessie that specific evening because it was the occasion upon which one of them had signed a wrestling contract. A receipt for this contract was produced in court by the prosecution showing it was actually signed on April 27th. Whether or not these friends were lying or simply mistaken is open to question. But obviously the credibility of Jessie's entire alibi - which he still sticks to from prison, by the way - was shaken by their efforts. The wrestling match in question was an informal affair. No actual records exist as to who was or was not there. The prosecution produced no witnesses to state Jessie was definitely absent. There was no call for Jessie or anyone he knew to produce an alibi for him until a full month after the murders. It must be considered possible that a combination of normal fallible memories and poor record-keeping made this a challenge impossible to meet.
http://www.wm3.org/live/faq/faq_category.php?id=5#faq53
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| Noor
Posted:
Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:10 pm |
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I am guessing those defense lawyers sucked all, but one.
The one that's still working on the case.
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Marco
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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Location: Ohio
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| prolific
Posted:
Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:40 pm |
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| pax wrote: |
Jessie's father places him still at home at 7:15 p.m. that evening. A neighbor states that he saw Jessie dressed in his wrestling gear sometime early that evening, which corresponds with Jessie's claim that he went with a group of friends to a ring in Dyess, Arkansas to participate in a match. Regretfully, several of Jessie's friends later apparently decided to try to "help" Jessie by making false statements to the police. One claimed to have been with Jessie in Dyess the night of the murders. A police statement he'd given prior to this claim was later read in court where he states he had never been to the Dyess ring until after May 5th. Two other wrestling teammates tried to claim they remembered being with Jessie that specific evening because it was the occasion upon which one of them had signed a wrestling contract. A receipt for this contract was produced in court by the prosecution showing it was actually signed on April 27th. Whether or not these friends were lying or simply mistaken is open to question. But obviously the credibility of Jessie's entire alibi - which he still sticks to from prison, by the way - was shaken by their efforts. The wrestling match in question was an informal affair. No actual records exist as to who was or was not there. The prosecution produced no witnesses to state Jessie was definitely absent. There was no call for Jessie or anyone he knew to produce an alibi for him until a full month after the murders. It must be considered possible that a combination of normal fallible memories and poor record-keeping made this a challenge impossible to meet.
http://www.wm3.org/live/faq/faq_category.php?id=5#faq53 |
Thanks Pax
Another point that's interesting from the link.
Alibis provided by strangers to the suspects are about the only ones usually accepted at face value in court, and understandably so. However, it is problematic for most people to prove where they were on a specific evening a MONTH after the fact. That can be a very daunting task, especially for unemployed teens with no particularly stable community ties. There is an irony: John Mark Byers' alibis for his whereabouts for all but a few periods during the evening of May 5th are vouched for almost exclusively by friends and family. Yet in his case, the WMPD did accept them on face value, because they never seriously considered that he might be a suspect. To this day, the WMPD continues to use those alibis as the reason why they did not consider Byers a suspect in the first place, which is circular logic at its finest.
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| Noor
Posted:
Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:04 pm |
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Great post Pro.
The other thing I was thinking was that Byers suspicion goes where ever the wind blows, as long as it blows away from him.
Where was the suspicion back then on Hobbs?
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Marco
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| prolific
Posted:
Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:45 pm |
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| marco wrote: | Great post Pro.
The other thing I was thinking was that Byers suspicion goes where ever the wind blows, as long as it blows away from him.
Where was the suspicion back then on Hobbs? |
If these boys are really innocent, and I only say if because I just don't know enough about the case, then they have just had the cards stacked against them from day one. What a travesty.
I'm pulling an all-nighter to get caught up with work so I'm working a little..catching up on this case a little..then working a little more..
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| Obscuregawdess
Posted:
Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:41 pm |
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| prolific wrote: |
If these boys are really innocent, and I only say if because I just don't know enough about the case, then they have just had the cards stacked against them from day one. What a travesty.
I'm pulling an all-nighter to get caught up with work so I'm working a little..catching up on this case a little..then working a little more.. |
I agree with you so much on many levels! I do think the cards were stacked against these boys and, in some ways, they were scapegoats for the real perps. I believe circular logic and distortions/rumors/bias from the media is what really hurt this case against the three young men.
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"Bratty Mama Leci"
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Noor
Posted:
Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:47 pm |
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I'm reading the book.
Who I blame, if these boys are innocent is the police and Vicky Hutcheson.
WTH what was up with this woman.
And now she's recanting everything she testified to in court, under oath.
This is one screwed up case.
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Marco
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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Location: Ohio
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| pax
Posted:
Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:24 pm |
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| Obscuregawdess wrote: |
I agree with you so much on many levels! I do think the cards were stacked against these boys and, in some ways, they were scapegoats for the real perps. I believe circular logic and distortions/rumors/bias from the media is what really hurt this case against the three young men. |
As many have said, what happened to the three victims is horrific. To think the wrong people were scapegoated is horrific as well.
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